Ok so Ive been heavily considering the cobalt, or possibly even an LSJ swap Ive read up on it as much as I can. I'm interested in knowing some of the thresholds of the motor, I have currently a supercharged ecotec in my cavalier with almost 100k on it, I know pretty much everything I need to on that motor, the info is out there its all proven and confirmed by many. The LSJ is a bit foreign to me.
My plans for the SS when I get it is intake, exhaust and the intense stage 5 kit, from thier claims thats around 275whp, I know on an L61 thats past the safe margin and the rods go, in the L61s we all know the rods are the first thing to go, and in the cases where rods dont bust ppl bust ring lands
Now with the LSJ being all forged stuff whats the first thing that ppl have consistantly broken on this motor, if indeed it has forged pistons and rods factory, I know on the L61s the next thing was the head maxed out at 350whp, I would think the LSJ head flows better and also has stronger valves, how high can this sucker be revved? I run 7000 with no problem on my L61 eco. Beyond the valves next thing to go is the head gasket and or head seperating itself from the block, anyone have issues with this?
I doubt Ill run much more than 290whp, I know the blower maxes out, speaking of which has anyone done or made a kit with an M90 it seems like short of a turbo thats the only this motor can be pushed beyond 300whp.
Looking beyond the engine itself Ive heard alot of ppl breaking axles and clutches, are they just weak? Any crazy PCM stuff I can deal with , I have HP tuners
One last thing, what sizes are the speakers in this thing, im an audio nut and id prob want to replace them
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
I just picked up a brand new 2006 SS/SC last week with the stage 2 kit. The issue is not the engine, it's the driveline. If you want to push over 250hp you will have to get new axels, clutch and flywheel to avoid problems. I have been on cobaltss.net alot reading as much as I can. The guys over there say you can get up to 400hp with the stock blwer but I have yet to see someone prove it. If you buy the car new you need to watch what mods you do to it, guys are having problems blowing axels and clutches and GM will not waranty the cars unless they are bone stock or have GMPP dealer installed parts on them. Some guys mad the hell out of them and have no problems so I think the driver mod has alot to do with the driveline problems. If you do get one just make sure you get the g85 package, seats are great and definantly want that LSD.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
Oh and alot of guys are pushing close to 250-275 with the stock headgasket so itr's a pertty strong engine.
I got mine with the prem audio. It had a 100w Pioneer amp with an 8" sub in the trunk, 6x9 back dash, 6" in the doors and tweeters in the door where the mirror covers are. It sounds good and clear, not alot of thump. I will definantly miss my 2-10" setup from the Cavalier but it's cool I like this car alot better for other reasons.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
I would love to see the v9 maxed out with heat exchanger on an lsj.
I believe most driveline failures to be driver and abuse related. There is no question the weak link in the driveline of teh Cobalt SS is the clutch. I would rather it there than in the tranny.
If only an adventurous company would develop an LSJ swap kit for the J. The option for a proven and warrantied performance crate motor for the J would be nice. The l61with boost has obviously proven itself. But the piece of mind that your engine was developed for boost is invaluable. Finding a reliable engine builder is pretty tough in some parts. Ordering a brand new motor with blower and all seems to me to be the best deal around.
Well if I did go the LSJ route it would be
3800 for the engine
? for PCM
? For engine wiring harness
New clutch and flywheel i dunno 700ish
So prob close to 5k and theres no guarentee it would even work, seems kinda silly to put that much into a cavalier thats as old as mine with the miles, if I get the cobalt its for sure going to be the G85
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
And all the crap you would have to go thru to get it all to work in a J. i.e. getting the dash to work and the intermingleing the two systems and fitment issues. I think it someone on here is running a LSJ head on the L61 and had to modify the master cylender to get the cam sensor to fit, so who know what else would give you problems. Save yourself the trouble and get a SS/SC. Yeah it sucks going into debt that far but what the hell you only live once. I am selling my J and moving on, I was never happy with it and was always modding something on it even though I told myself it's not worth it. Now I can finally work on the Supra that has been in my barn for the last two and a half years.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
nah no ebay stuff for me, if i get one its coming brand new from GM performance parts, you never know what your getting with a used engine
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Not sure why you would think it might not work.
Delphi has stand alone PCMs. I know of at least one place where they are including them in thier turbo crate setups.
As far as justifying the lsj crate setup. If produced in sufficient quantities, I'm sure a complete kit would be of a reasonable price. When you think of it, many do these additional mods anyway. Buy a used J, buy swap kit, and there you go.
Of course we all have to admit that rationalizing any mods to a J is pointless. With a car at your point, my suggestion might not be remotely rationalized at all.
I suppose the most rational choice would be to buy a Cobalt SS and play with that instead. But I can never ignore that the J is far lighter. I think it's on the order of 300lbs. A fair chunk.
well the 2.0 is kinda hard to use in a J , the rear cam sensor hits the master cyl (suncavi tried and modded the master cyl)
the clutch sucks , and their axels are smaller than the cavs axles , lol
they are drive by wire , so alot of problems there , and the crank reference signal is not the same as the 2.2
for the money its better to build up the 2.2 , alot less problems
i think he means he wasts a car that comes with the lsj.
I think it all depends on where you are at with your modding. The challenges to overcome for an engineering firm are minimal when it comes to a engine swap kit. I have seen engine swap kits for many other cars. Generally, they required as much work. Someone was simply willing to pay for the development. That being said, a one off setup would certainly be expensive.
I think if I were Matt, I would buy a low milleage L61 and simply get the car running again. Even the brand new crates are less than 2g's. And the motor takes 6lbs well. Especially with custom tuning. It's a nicely balanced car at this point.
If you are planning to pull the motor to fix it, then you open a can of worms as far as where you draw the line on the rebuild. You keep saying migght as well upgrade this while I'm at it, and so on and so on and then you end up with a really expensive build a year down the road. All the while ending up with the same relative power without additional power adders.
The LSJ is a very potent engine. There are guys running the car to 7600 rpm without any problems. As far as the driveline concerns. I think a lot of it is driver error. Everyone is on the "my clutch sucks and so do my axles" bandwagon. The axle problem rumor seemed to start heavily when someone did a 4000 rpm launch with a stage 3 clutch and slicks. It broke, go figure. With people pushing just over 300 whp i think it will take some internal work to get it to the 400 range.
Personally i kind wish i would have bought a good DD and persued the J route.
sadly it doesnt look like the beast I was hoping for, looks like quite a few peeps on cobaltss.net have blown headgaskets and they arent even above 250hp
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
and rodius wat have we learned about making things work lol JK
you scratch my ride IMA EAT YO CHILDREN
If the cobalts engine is the same as the saab 2.0L, I would not buy a used engine. Some 2.0l's have cylinder "porosity" problems. Causing the engine to burn a little coolant.
Man where to start. I would first say stick with your 2.2 and boost you have. I would like to ask where has it be proven the stock 2.2 head is dead at 350whp?? Never seen it. Also will agree on the 2.0 set-up clutches and axles is drivers. Lots of young no experience people with SS's. People use to scream that on here as well, but we have seen what the getrag can take. I think without a doubt a 2.0 can be put in a J and would love to do it for the fun, but not a motor I want. Also the stock blower will not make 400hp on the 2.0, it has taken a ported blower for the stage 5 kits to get high 12's (not hating the time because that is great). If you are going to mod whatever you have and you like the looks of your car just build your motor.
FU Tuning
I have to completely disagree on the blown headgasket at 250 hp. IF this were true then the GM stage 2 would blow them as most people are seeing near that at the wheels.
Apparently a number of ppl have blown the head gasket, and the axles are physically smaller than the J, more reason to maybe try it in a cav Lol
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
I don't see the Delta cars as that much of an upgrade to ditch a boosted J for. They are nicer in some areas, but not nice enough to make me want to do it.
FstCavZ24 (M62 ECO) wrote:I don't see the Delta cars as that much of an upgrade to ditch a boosted J for. They are nicer in some areas, but not nice enough to make me want to do it.
Totaly agree on this one.
Yea I have read the same posts over at CobaltSS, but not very many post about it from the Redline guys.
Swap would be really kwel to see, but unless you have a beater to drive around, you are stuck with few options.
I had a cobalt SS/SC. Believe me, it's quite an upgrade over a J body. The interior alone is something to cry over.
Jim Mitchell wrote: The interior alone is something to cry over.
true, cause the interior sucks
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
FstCavZ24 (M62 ECO) wrote:I don't see the Delta cars as that much of an upgrade to ditch a boosted J for. They are nicer in some areas, but not nice enough to make me want to do it.
i dont agree with you, 2 months ago i sold my cavalier and got an 06 SS S/C and i couldnt be happier. The car handles so much better and just has a much better feel than the cavalier could ever be. Yeah the power is about the same, id give some to the cobalt, but other than that the cobalt leaves the cavalier in the dust.
Id say if you just want to make a powerful car thats a track monster stick with the cavalier and build it up. If you want a fun toy get the Cobalt.
2006 Black Cobalt SS Supercharged G85
13.91@102.77
you have a FWD car with an Eco.. and you think another FWD Eco car is much better? Nah.. No big upgrade. Fancier I'd say but heavier. Cav's can be made IRS (which deltas dont have stock either) and with suspension upgrades they handle rather well. you want a better platform with the Eco get a Solstice/Sky. Otherwise engine build time
I'd say grab a low mileage used motor. trust me they are dirt cheap and everywhere. I'm kinda crying that I didnt pursue this and went another 2.4 for my swap. If they're expensive by you then make another trip to Yorkville lol!! Pull yours and build it while your replacement is in.
but about the 2.0 swap :
The way I see it the Crank sensor is the big problem with the 2.0 swap. It seems all we need is a balancer with 7 magnets for fly by in the right place (a mimic of an old MSD setup), a way to use the J Eco ICM, and block off plate for the exhaust cam and you have a swap kit for the manuals. The mounting stuff can be had from a yard or the motor you currently have. This is the info I have pieced together.
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
