I upgraded a little from this intercooler
To this MONSTER intercooler
And its all tucked up nicely under the stock bumper
WOW, that thing is HUGE! Good job getting it to fit behind the stock bumper, did you have to remove any/most of the crush panel?
15.3 @ 89.97mph, 14's on the way?
Oh yeah theres no more rigidity to my reinforcement anymore. But I was able to keep my foglights. LOL
hey thats awesome...
sucks 50% of the intercooler is covered by your bumper meaning you probably accomplished nothing
put on an aftermarket one so you can get some airflow
Damn, looks like it is 3 times the size as the older one. deffinately a sleeper! Do you go to New England dragways at all with that?
I have a BC2 kit that I have to finish fitting to the car and then I will put it on.
I havent been to NE Dragway with it since before forced induction. But I am planning on going up before they close down for the year.
I like how you cut the reinforcement and fit the intercooler in there, but you should have welded something behind it to connect the two halves of the bumper reinforcement.
My god that things HUGE!!!!!!
Whatcha doing with the old intercooler?
there goes your efficiency...
LE61T PTE6262 Powered 
how so?
Blew it up, build numbers coming soon
^slower spool times, and maybe even a lose of power pending on turbo. i watched my buddys civic hatch dyno lower with a huge precision over a cheap sidemount coverted to front mount core. if u can't push the air thru the core its a pretty big waste.
http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA
huge.... thats all i can say... HUGE! very nice
|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|
Quote:
there goes your efficiency...
x2. theres no way your engine needs an intercooler that big. thats alot more space for the air to travel though. your gonna loose psi and power by the time the air gets through that.
your 1st intercooler looked like it would be fine for 350hp. how much power do you plan on pushing?
looks good though. nice job making it fit.
http://www.myspace.com/15102113
did the same jump....... my old cooler was about the same size as your first one........ and looks like you picked up the same cooler I did to replace it.
Mine will also be hidden behind a stock bumper..... but with a duct to direct all air threw the cooler and radiator.
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
You will lose maybe two tenths more of a pressure drop, but you won't lose effiency. I don't know where you guys come up with this stuff.
Blew it up, build numbers coming soon
common sense....
the intercooler he had was rated to 350 whp.
unless he's running 700+ whp he doesnt need one that big.
if everyone though an intercooler that big would help and 10 psi we'd all be running one like that....
but then again John and I are more performance oriented, so we will go with what works best in our systems.
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
98redcavz24 wrote:You will lose maybe two tenths more of a pressure drop, but you won't lose effiency. I don't know where you guys come up with this stuff.
You lose psi you lose on the overall efficiency of the system.
Let me shed some light on the subjuect.
The overall efficiency of the system is measured in more than just the turbos efficiency, all things are measured and included. Why do you think when you put a header on a stock motor you put down a little more to the wheels? Because you've raised the efficiency of the system by eliminating a bottleneck weak point. The same principles at work here, more surface area means greater loss to skin friction drag losses inside the intercooler. To reduce skin friction you need to push the air fast enough to get boundary layer seperation within the air channels inside the intercooler. Once you oversize the intercooler and add channels for the air to move thr, which lowers the air velocity inside the channels and you lose the ability to get boundary layer separation. When you get high skin friction forces you gain added friction which will add heat and backpressure. more backpressure than anything, the heat added will be unnoticeable because you will still be sinking heat the atmosphere just not as much but still a small difference.
This can also be reversed, as the header example shows, too small and you get the velocity too high and you can get turbulent flow vs. laminar flow, basically the difference is a turbulent: (uncontrolled, random directional flow with vortexes) vs. laminar: (solid column, directional, orderly) flow of air. A good example of this is hold your hand around you side mirrow of you car when driving, at 20mph or so you will feel a common/constant/steady flow of air into your hand, not speed up to 50+ or so, and you will feel a turbulent flow/random/unconsistent direction of flow. Once the air velociy through a given channel is fast enough it can create turbulent flow which would be devastating to an intercooler setup where the goal is getting a solid and steady heat transfer to the aluminum. Turbulent flow increases back-pressure and friction in the airway, which is why a header is effective for a stock motor by reducing or eliminating turbulent flow. In an intercooler setup the ultimate setup is a fast laminar flow, problem is motors aren't steady-state and the air velocity will vary thru the intake, so the best you can do is get optimal for WOT and go from there since that is the most important throttle position.
The best way to know if you intercooler is too small is to look at the pressure drop, if you have a high pressure drop with a small intercooler than it is too small and you are creating a turbulent flow inside the intercooler which is worse than an oversized intercooler. Since turbulent flow means that the air isn't in constant contact with the air fins that cool the air.
Like I said earlier, fast laminar is optimal(just right size), slow laminar is next best(oversized), then you have turbulent(undersized) - the most devastating because it creates inconsistent heat transfer and backpressure.
I couldn't tell you if you previous was better unless I knew the cross-sectional area of the air channels and how many there are and the length of them for both intercoolers and your WOT cfm of air required, you get me those numbers and I can tell you exactly which intercooler would be best.
Sorry for such a long post, there is so much more to this so if there are some "scrathing your head" holes somewhere let me know and I'll try to clear it up.
Not trying to sound nerdy or anything just trying to enlighten, somebody will find this interesting, others will think I'm full of it. Just trying to share some knowledge learned while earning my degree.
P.S. Another example of a good tuned air system is an air conditioning system in a house. Put you hands in front of an air duct and you will feel a solid column of laminar flow. Or at least should, depending on what defuser you have on there could posibly not allow this example to show true. If any of you ever have put your face in front of an air conditioning duct that doesn't have a diffuser infront of it you will know what I'm talking about. Those systems are highly tuned systems that optimized for fast laminar flow. try it....it'll feel great in the summer.
edit: fixed some crappy sentences for a better read.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, September 10, 2006 9:24 AM
SpeedRacerZ wrote:did the same jump....... my old cooler was about the same size as your first one........ and looks like you picked up the same cooler I did to replace it.
Mine will also be hidden behind a stock bumper..... but with a duct to direct all air threw the cooler and radiator.
if the only new..... if they only new
QBE (The Boosted One) wrote:but then again John and I are more performance oriented, so we will go with what works best in our systems.
now if that was true, you would have ditched that Eco for a real motor
Z Speed Cavi wrote:SpeedRacerZ wrote:did the same jump....... my old cooler was about the same size as your first one........ and looks like you picked up the same cooler I did to replace it.
Mine will also be hidden behind a stock bumper..... but with a duct to direct all air threw the cooler and radiator.
if the only new..... if they only new
Shhhhh.......
Joshua Dearman wrote:98redcavz24 wrote:You will lose maybe two tenths more of a pressure drop, but you won't lose effiency. I don't know where you guys come up with this stuff.
You lose psi you lose on the overall efficiency of the system.
Combat PSI loss..... get your boost signal from the intake manifold, not the compressor housing........
you will get the boost you want, even if you loose an over all 1-2psi, you'll never feel it.
Thanks for the lesson in HVAC systems...... I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm playing with mine.
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
SpeedRacerZ wrote:Combat PSI loss..... get your boost signal from the intake manifold, not the compressor housing........ you will get the boost you want, even if you loose an over all 1-2psi, you'll never feel it.
You would need the boost reading from both compressor housing and intake to see what the air is doing in the intercooler. Yes, there is always the boost knob you can turn up but that wont solve anything when it comes down to optimal heat transfer in the intercooler.
The larger intercooler isn't nessesarily a bad thing, slow laminar is still better than turbulent flow however make sure you get air up to the top of the intercooler. Any part of an intercooler that isn't in contact with enough air to sink heat will only keep heat in. The air that gets sent along the top of the intercooler will sink much less heat and will be much hotter at the end of the cooler than that air that travels thru the part of the intercooler that is in direct contact with air. Then in the end tank they mix and you have a higher air charge temperature than you would have had with a smaller intercooler that was all inside the air's path.
Big intercooler = just fine if you can get air to it, if not, only use the size that you can get 100% of it in the airs path.
Brian:
Thats funny, your intercooler goes totally against your favorite quote: ""Bigger isnt always better" Mark Pain"
And yes, you can apply this to your future air conditioning unit you will buy........but I have a felling you'll ignore it and just buy the biggest one you can find
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:49 PM
SpeedRacerZ wrote:
now if that was true, you would have ditched that Eco for a real motor
A built Eco is THE real motor for any of our cars on boost. This coming from me, a guy with a LD9...that Eco must be pretty good
_________________________________________
450WHP Turbo Ecotec swap in the works...
Joshua Dearman wrote:Brian:
Thats funny, your intercooler goes totally against your favorite quote: ""Bigger isnt always better" Mark Pain"
And yes, you can apply this to your future air conditioning unit you will buy........but I have a felling you'll ignore it and just buy the biggest one you can find
Once you see the rest of what I have to go with the intercooler, you'll understand...... as for the A/C...... the one that came with my house, works just fine, but
IF I do need to buy another A/C unit, your right....... I will buy bigger..... but I'll also buy a bigger house to go with it
Spilner521 wrote:SpeedRacerZ wrote:
now if that was true, you would have ditched that Eco for a real motor
A built Eco is THE real motor for any of our cars on boost. This coming from me, a guy with a LD9...that Eco must be pretty good
The Eco crack was a on going joke between Phil and I........ a LONG on going joke....
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
think of it like this. try to blow air through the smaller cooler. then try to blow air through the huge cooler. its gonna take alot more air and pressure to get it through.. and not all of it is going to make it.
so unless your moving THAT much air and need THAT big of an intercooler, then theres not really a point.
http://www.myspace.com/15102113
how much for the old one? Send me a PM.
-Chris
John H [Cavalierkid wrote:]think of it like this. try to blow air through the smaller cooler. then try to blow air through the huge cooler. its gonna take alot more air and pressure to get it through.. and not all of it is going to make it.
so unless your moving THAT much air and need THAT big of an intercooler, then theres not really a point.
The air will get through, just with more drag due to more surface area, however he is gauranteed no turbulent flow which is a plus. But none of that means anything unless he can get air to it. no air = no cooling, big intercooler with no air = worse than a smaller intercooler with air.....period.
That intercooler really is made for a stought v6 but it'll work....just make an airfoil or something for it to channel the air otherwise you've wasted time, money and got a higher IAT along with it.
It sure does look good tho!
