Ok I blown my engine up on monday.
I installed the GM S/G and it lastes about half an hour but it was a fun ride !!!!
Now for the info... Is a 2001 2.4L twincam made stronger to hold the boost then a 1997 ???
please if someone knows i'd be greatfull !
Ben
Not really. Pretty much the same engine, just a few minor changes with some sensors and what not. Internals aren't any stronger from one year to the other.
What were you doing? Did you do the reflash or any fuel upgrades? Just curious and for blowing the motor you don't seem to mad
~Boost. Its what's for dinner!~
lol I am mad but I don't show it lol. I think more of the fun I had with even if it lasted a few minutes lol.
It's better to laught about than do unforgivable stuff...
Anyhow, I did some fuel ubgrades, I installed a walbro 255 fuel pump an FMU and a AFPR.
I did what was on the stiky for S/C installation on pre 99 mostly.
I have a complet exhaust, a 4 to 1 header ceramic coated with a magnaflow dual catback and I did sort of speak the secret cam mods. I had my cam shaft grinded to the specs of the 2.3 HO and shaved the head.
I didn't do the reflash didn't think it would help realy.
Do you think that could got thru my engine ?
Ben
And yes inside I am mad but let's see i'm a mecanic and after the garage I work part time in a recycling yard so I get almost everything for a cheapy price, I already found a new engine a 2001 with 40 000 km and 225 of compression on each cylinder for 400 $. So I could be madder if you see my point lol....
you should have gotten hptuners or the reflash, you need to retard your timing somehow...did you have a 2bar map sensor? did you have a wideband?
|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|
well with the new engine the reflash will be done. I don't know about the 2bar sensor I took the one that came with the kit I bought on ebay so ... And I had my original o2 sensor ...
wich brings a question who makes them ( wideband sensor ) ??
Oh and what is the difference of the 2bar sensor and original ??
and what are the diferences of original o2 sensore and wideband ??
I don't know why you guys are getting on his ass about using the reflash, he has a 97...
Original sensor only sees vacuum, and cannot relay information about being in boost. 2 bar reads up to 14.7 psi of boost. Of course, the ECU needs to be programmed in order to recognize this.
Narrowband (Stock) = called Nerst cell O2 technology. It is only accurate at 14.78:1, and the output is not linear, meaning the voltage fluctuates wildly between small changes in A/F ratio. These sensors are not accurate at providing feedback information and cannot be relied on when you are trying to tune for a specific richer air-fuel ratio.
Wideband - These sensors have a linear output based on the A/F ratio. The voltage range of the sensor is much longer (wider). Narrowband is 0-1.250 volts, wideband is generally 0-5v. This yields a much more accurate feedback throughout the A/F band. Wideband sensors are accurate throughout the sensor range, typically from 9:1 to around 20:1.
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ONe bar can still be used if the maps are rescaled, though right?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Friday, September 08, 2006 6:36 PM
Alright that's some good information thanks Shifted !!!
So I should be using a wideband I guess !
anyone knows of good brands ?
And thinking about it i don't think this could have blown my engine still !
I'll be having my new engine on monday i'll be installing it almost right away but till I store my car for winter i don't know If I should already try the S/C !
Maybe it was just bad luck still my engine had 150 000 km and they weren't all easy ones lol.
but last summer I put all new gaskets and seals I changed my piston rings and all the crank bearrings !
Should I try S/C on my new 2001 engine ??
No, waht you should do is step back because you have NO idea what you are doing. Tuning something without a wideband isnt smart. I garuntee it was because of that reason you blew the crap out of the motor. You didnt know waht your a/f ratio was, you ran lean, and blew it up. You ahve a 97 like shifted said, so you cant get the reflash, so you shouldnt be using the 2 bar map that came with your kit. If your going to put the charger back on, get a wideband 02, larger than stock injectors (I never heard you mention anything about larger than stock injectors, you cant run any boost on stock injectors, they will clip, and boom, done for), turn down the base fuel pressure so it idles around 14.7:1, and start tuning with the FMU. Get into boost VERY slowly, and pay attention to the WB02, and tune accordingly before you go mashing on it, my god. I am sorry if I came off as an @!#$, but really, do some research, or something. Hoepfully this was a well needed lesson.
no one was getting on his ass about the reflash... atleast I wasnt...I was just saying he needs to tune... hptuners, ms, something
if you had the 2bar map sensor in there with no reflash then even your driving around would have been $$%$% up.... all of the map readings were completely off...
hptuners is your friend, and so is shifted... lol, he can tune it for you if you send him your ecu and he can make sure the same thing does not happen again... hes really smart, you should pm him
you got into a completely unready car and floored it.... no fuel mods listed, no fuel tuning to compensate for boost, i cant even describe what the heck your timing was doing, no wideband, hopefully you had a boost gauge....
you took your engine and punched it in the mouth,
You should search for your questions in the boost forum... chances are you will find all of your answers...
AEM UEGO Wideband is the most user friendly i have ever dealt with....Then you can see how your fuel is doing
Bigger Injectors.... your stock injectors can not add the amount of fuel you need to add to compensate for all of the extra air going in the engine
HPTuners will help you change the values on the computer to know what the heck that 2bar sensor is trying to tell it....www.hptuners.com
helpful links...notice the author
http://www.4cyltuner.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=20
http://www.4cyltuner.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=5
http://www.4cyltuner.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=22
there is much more to read if you just search for it!! good luck
|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|
Shifted wrote:How would you rescale the maps? It doesn't matter what the ECU says, the sensor can only sense up to 0psi, so you could "scale" the maps all day long and wouldn't make any difference if the sensor can't read it.
Maybe I worded that wrong - or understood something wrong - but haven't some been doing some sort of funky scaling or something with their tuning software to more or less fake the fuel maps? Like I said maybe I just misunderstood something.
ln2johnny wrote:Shifted wrote:How would you rescale the maps? It doesn't matter what the ECU says, the sensor can only sense up to 0psi, so you could "scale" the maps all day long and wouldn't make any difference if the sensor can't read it.
Maybe I worded that wrong - or understood something wrong - but haven't some been doing some sort of funky scaling or something with their tuning software to more or less fake the fuel maps? Like I said maybe I just misunderstood something.
They are rescaling the stock ecu program to work with a 2bar MAP sensor like the GMSC reflash does, only with 1/2 the resolution.
15.3 @ 89.97mph, 14's on the way?
OK i've been looking quickly the site of hp tuners. what exacly will I be able to do with it ?
from what I see i'm only missing bigger injectors and a wideband ( thanks to shifted about the info on o2 sensors )
And a question about o2 sensor : will my computer notice the difference of the sensor or it needs to be tuned to read the wideband sensor ??
Benoit Lafreniere wrote:OK i've been looking quickly the site of hp tuners. what exacly will I be able to do with it ?
from what I see i'm only missing bigger injectors and a wideband ( thanks to shifted about the info on o2 sensors )
And a question about o2 sensor : will my computer notice the difference of the sensor or it needs to be tuned to read the wideband sensor ??
You will need to run a narrowband sensor for the ECU, it doesn't have the circuitry or the capability to understand the output from a wideband. Some narrowband sensors can "emulate" the narrowband output, but I've never had any luck with that, so I just run 2 O2 sensors, one for narrowband, and my wideband, makes life a LOT easier.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, September 09, 2006 3:55 PM
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ln2johnny wrote:Shifted wrote:How would you rescale the maps? It doesn't matter what the ECU says, the sensor can only sense up to 0psi, so you could "scale" the maps all day long and wouldn't make any difference if the sensor can't read it.
Maybe I worded that wrong - or understood something wrong - but haven't some been doing some sort of funky scaling or something with their tuning software to more or less fake the fuel maps? Like I said maybe I just misunderstood something.
Yes, if you change the MAP sensor to a 2 bar, it was my understanding from this statement:
ln2johnny wrote:
ONe bar can still be used if the maps are rescaled, though right?
that you wanted to rescale the table but keep the 1 bar sensor.
4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!
Shifted wrote:Benoit Lafreniere wrote:OK i've been looking quickly the site of hp tuners. what exacly will I be able to do with it ?
from what I see i'm only missing bigger injectors and a wideband ( thanks to shifted about the info on o2 sensors )
And a question about o2 sensor : will my computer notice the difference of the sensor or it needs to be tuned to read the wideband sensor ??
You will need to run a narrowband sensor for the ECU, it doesn't have the circuitry or the capability to understand the output from a wideband. Some narrowband sensors can "emulate" the narrowband output, but I've never had any luck with that, so I just run 2 O2 sensors, one for narrowband, and my wideband, makes life a LOT easier.
And it costs what, 50 cents for a bung and if you know how to half-ass weld, weld it yourself, or 20 bucks at an exhaust shop would probably do the trick.
Shifted wrote:You will need to run a narrowband sensor for the ECU, it doesn't have the circuitry or the capability to understand the output from a wideband. Some narrowband sensors can "emulate" the narrowband output, but I've never had any luck with that, so I just run 2 O2 sensors, one for narrowband, and my wideband, makes life a LOT easier.
PLX makes a great wide band, that has a narrow band output, and it works GREAT with our ECM. The PLX-M250 and Gauge would work, or the PLX-M300 with display...... Then you only need one O2 sensor.
ALSO....... some wide band sensors need to be placed farther back in the exhaust stream, so they dont absorb to much heat...... the PLX does not have that problem.
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'02 Z24 420whp
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I have the PLX-300, I still use the stock sensor. I wasnt sure if the O2 sensor switched fast enough for our computers to use efficiently.
Shifted wrote:Benoit Lafreniere wrote:OK i've been looking quickly the site of hp tuners. what exacly will I be able to do with it ?
from what I see i'm only missing bigger injectors and a wideband ( thanks to shifted about the info on o2 sensors )
And a question about o2 sensor : will my computer notice the difference of the sensor or it needs to be tuned to read the wideband sensor ??
You will need to run a narrowband sensor for the ECU, it doesn't have the circuitry or the capability to understand the output from a wideband. Some narrowband sensors can "emulate" the narrowband output, but I've never had any luck with that, so I just run 2 O2 sensors, one for narrowband, and my wideband, makes life a LOT easier.
Which wideband did you use to try and emulate the narrowband? I have a plx m-500 and used their emulation software, but that assumes a 0-1 volt narrow band sensor. Do you know if ours is 0-1.25 Volts? or something? The car runs ok, but i can't say for certain if it was the same as before, since there were a lot of things done at the same time.
