Here it is, all said and done.
Fabbed 2.3HO Fuel Rail and Welded Brackets, Ground out ports for Injector Bungs, -10AN stainless braided inlet hose to welded inlet bung, -6AN stainless braided outlet hose to Aeromotive AFPR, -6AN stainless braided hose from AFPR outlet to fuel line. Custom Injector Harness with Bosch Style Clips.
Total time: around 14 hours steady (including fitting, welding, grinding, smoothing, shaping, and every other action verb)
As you can see, everything fit perfectly. Others in the past doing the top feed conversion have had to create a Plenum Spacer so as to fit the shotty 2200 Fuel Rail in the factory angle. Here I decided NOT to do that, and went a less economical route.
Shown below you can see how well the injector clips fit so perfectly, almost like I lucked out...
She just wouldn't leave me alone..
the setup as she'll be laid out once in the car.
hmmmmm PU$$Y ..... LOL
horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, Torque is how far you push the wall with you
ok, call me ignorant. but WTF DOES THIS DO. Ive seen the 2200 and the topfed ones at the junkyard and I still cant figure out the difference in performance.
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! 
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top feed use a more common style of injectors. basically what all the 98 and new 2200 cavaliers came with. anything from 97 and older which were the 2.2'sdidnt have a way of change the stock injectors with something larger for lets say boost. so basically you had 2 options for boosting a 2.2 top feed conversion like so. or getting a stand alone injector set up efic or something like that
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/827643
boost will be soon for me....
side fed injectors from GM are arguably 'not upgradeable', there's people running TBI injectors in place of stockers and doing well with that.
Since I'm running a Haltech (should be up and running this week), I can get away with running a large injector of either high impedance or low impedance (the haltech doesn't care, just as long as I click the right box on the program). These 72# injectors are a hell of an upgrade over the stock 17# (?) or 19# (?) side fed that came stock.
stevefire wrote:side fed injectors from GM are arguably 'not upgradeable', there's people running TBI injectors in place of stockers and doing well with that.
Since I'm running a Haltech (should be up and running this week), I can get away with running a large injector of either high impedance or low impedance (the haltech doesn't care, just as long as I click the right box on the program). These 72# injectors are a hell of an upgrade over the stock 17# (?) or 19# (?) side fed that came stock.
ok so whats your reason for doing it then? also Im guessing that the flow rate on the 72 is 72 lbs? thats huge you cant be needing those....can you. or is it just a case of good deal came along so you went for it. I know the feeling with a stand alone you stop looking at injector compatability and start looking a what the hell it can do.
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
well, my reason for doing this conversion is I'm in the process of building my 2.2OHV for boost.
I went with 72# because I know the Haltech could idle them no problem, and I didn't want to go out buying new injectors if I were to peak out anything smaller. (I know I wont peak these out, ever...)
Also, I'm not using any sort of FMU or bandaid method, its all the haltech.
In such a case that I can't get it to idle 72# (which it will) I can drop the static FP down another 20psi or so.
stevefire wrote:well, my reason for doing this conversion is I'm in the process of building my 2.2OHV for boost.
I went with 72# because I know the Haltech could idle them no problem, and I didn't want to go out buying new injectors if I were to peak out anything smaller. (I know I wont peak these out, ever...)
Also, I'm not using any sort of FMU or bandaid method, its all the haltech.
In such a case that I can't get it to idle 72# (which it will) I can drop the static FP down another 20psi or so.
good call on the 72 lbs I know exactly where your coming from.
one more q for you though. is it that the stock head wont recive different injectors (which would make sense switch) or is it that you just wanted the look. the reason I ask is because from what im reading, you can fit new injectors just not run them with out some sort of conrtol.
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
thats looks great. i need to get off my ass and start working on my top feed conversion. nice job.
Jcavi - I wanted to do something different, this really hasn't been done to the extent that I went to. Usually they resort to the 2200 fuel rail. Some of the OHV guru's may argue whether or not its 'better' or just 'different'. In terms of upgrading the side fed injectors, no, I didn't want to risk not being able to run them, then be without a running car as I work on a top feed conversion. (I hope you know what I mean)
Also the injectors are angled a bit more at the 'port wall' now instead of directly at the valve. Its still going to get into the combustion chamber, the question is whether or not I'll be taking full advantage of the atomized fuel/air mixture, or whether it'll have time to 'pool' or 'puddle'. Its not something I'm going to worry about if it works.
Chris - its nice to regain some faith amongst the 'elders' on the JBO, I knew I didn't have everybody sold when I first posted pictures. In terms of polishing it, etc, I dont think that I have anytime to do that.
The block is going together today, the engine is pulled next week. The new heart goes in the weekend after that. Then its go-time.
I've spent a year and a half on this thing, and I know things will never be perfect before it goes in. Its all the small work after its in and running.
Looks great Steve, even better when it was in my hands yesterday!
15.3 @ 89.97mph, 14's on the way?
I would worry about pddiling with boost. you only see it at atmospheric which wont be a problem with a turbo.
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
Iam really happy to see the time for these conversions is getting lower and lower. When I first saw Tony's setup, I thought "Very nice, but waaay overkill." Yours looks practical and functionsl. Nice.
It's possible to see fuel puddling even with a boosted engine. Low engine speed acceleration, deceleration and idle conditions are the times when this will most likely be a problem. But don't worry about the injectors aimed at the port walls vs the valves. TBI injectors are aimed at the throttle plates and/or the manifold floor, and those engines seem to run ok. It just takes some changes to the tuning.
But WTH are you doing with 72#/hr injectors??? That's freakin' huge!!! I'm sure the controller can dial the pulsewidth down small enough to get the theoretically correct AFR, but the injecotrs physically aren't going to want to play that game. Imagine trying to fill a glass of water with a fire hose... it's just not that easy to do.
For what it's worth, the 52 #/hr TBI injectors I'm using are turned down to something like 14 psi at idle. That's about as low as they'll go... it makes them somewhere in the neighborhood of 40#/hr equivalent flow. And to get a 900 rpm idle speed I need to fire the injectors 1/2 as often, for 2x the required pulse width. This is about what you'll be doing if you're able to fire the injectors sequentially. Otherwise, well, it's likely to be a huge fight. And it's really important to use voltage corrections if you can. I could actually see the difference in fuel delivery with the WBO2 when the heater fan was on high and system voltage dropped 2V at idle.
Don't take this as a criticism, just a warning that you may be in for some tuning work. IMO 30 - 35#/hr injectors would be a good start, so you could dial in a VE table and get the car running ok. Then when you swap to the large injectors you'll know that at least the car can run ok.
LMK if you need copies of my tables. At least those can cross the border without hitting customs.
-->Slow
I guess what I was concerned about with having something small like 35#'s was that the fuel pressure would need to be increased to deliver more fuel, and I really dont want to do that. (other then referenced 1:1 with the aeromotive). I have easy access to a set of brown tops, I should really pick those up and start small..
I wont be running SFI, unfortunately the haltech does not support a cam sensor input, therefore I'm limited to Batch fire. Also only 2 injector drivers.
Voltage Corrections can be programmed into the Haltech, IIRC.
As for the tables, I'd be interested in seeing them. Are they setup in pulsewidths or in milliseconds? IIRC, haltech uses milliseconds (and duty cycle, mind you)
Also, Tony lives like 5 minutes from my house, it seems like a coincidence that we live in the same city. (the fact that he was one of the first, if not THE first to do a topfeed)
actually Im being kind of stupid too, youll deffintly see vac. I swer I need to go to bed sooner
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Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
BAD-A$$!!!! nice machining too very happy to see that you smoothed the surface for a tight seal. shows thought!
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As for the tables, I'd be interested in seeing them. Are they setup in pulsewidths or in milliseconds? IIRC, haltech uses milliseconds (and duty cycle, mind you)
They're factory tables set up in VE% which doesn't translate well to milliseconds. But if the Haltech indexes main tables by engine rpm and load or map then the shape of the VE table will help. You can use the VE% to determine the Haltech injector ms as a percent. I can walk ya through it when the time comes. The real trick is in figuring out a base ms pw, but that isn't too hard 'cause we can use a datalog of my car to come up with my idle pw in ms, then adjust it for larger injectors.
When starting out everything is basically a guess anyway. You just try to guess as close as possible to save time and the engine.
-->Slow
the nice thing about the Haltech is that it comes with a 'base map' already which is setup as a general starter for the GM 60*V6's. With the help of Colin (v6h.o.) I should be able to get a half-ass tune down quickly just by varying the maps provided.
There's a few things I wish the E6GMX had, such as 4 injector drivers, a cam sensor input, wideband correction capabilities, and knock sensor input.
ah well, beggars can't be choosers I guess.
thanks slow.
Steve
man, that thing looks awesome, I wish I could be in the 'peg to help you do that swap, I would bring some good amounts of beer and really only be useful for about the first 3 hours, but in that time the engine will be out and clutch/tranny put back on
more pics as soon as you get them
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
