Ok I wanted to find this answer for myself but have been struggling with figuring out what turbo to use. I bought maximum boost almost a year ago and have been trying to crunch numbers to figure out what turbo would work best on my 2200. The car is not modified much at all so nothing to add there. Now after doing all the numbers it seems that the compressor maps show that the T3/T04E 50 or 57 trim .48 a/r gives the best efficiency almost through the range of boost that I may run. I would start out with 6 psi intercooled of course and possibly go as high as 10 psi. But everyone on here seems to be very set on running the super 60 for such a mild build.
Again I am sorry for asking a question that is beat to death but I need to know if I either figured my numbers right and should go with a T04E or if I need to refigure all of my calculations. I am just looking for some help from the gurus.
Thanks
What is your horsepower goal....
nothing huge. maybe 180-200. But that is after I build the motor and stuff. Right now I am shooting for maybe 160 stock bottom end.
well the 2200 is capable of over 200 wheel hp with a stock bottom end. me and lee are pushing over 10psi. with t3's. i myself am pushing 15 with a stock bottom end. but if all u want is 200hp then a super 60 would b the better choice.
DRIVE HARD OR DONT DRIVE AT ALL!!!
Well how bout this. For you guys that have a turbo on the 2200 what kind of boost level results in what kind of power. Say if I go with 6psi what kind of a guess on power level. If I can get more power I will go for more power. I just dont have the money to build somthing insane. What turbo are you running CAVI.DEMON?
Rollinredcavi wrote:Well how bout this. For you guys that have a turbo on the 2200 what kind of boost level results in what kind of power. Say if I go with 6psi what kind of a guess on power level. If I can get more power I will go for more power. I just dont have the money to build somthing insane. What turbo are you running CAVI.DEMON?
Well PSI amount won't tell you your power output...the trim you're running and compressor housing size plays effect into your power output per PSI. If anything, you should ask others to list what trim and size turbo they have, the specs on it (a/r), PSI level they are running and if possible, their dyno results. It's alot to ask for but if even a couple people can give you a full answer, it'll help you out some and give you an idea of what to look for.
My suggestion also is to try and reach Lee and/or Ken 2.2 privately to get their opinions on their setups.
Good luck.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
well i have a t3 48/42. 60 trim
DRIVE HARD OR DONT DRIVE AT ALL!!!
NJHK (The Turbo Negro) wrote:Rollinredcavi wrote:Well how bout this. For you guys that have a turbo on the 2200 what kind of boost level results in what kind of power. Say if I go with 6psi what kind of a guess on power level. If I can get more power I will go for more power. I just dont have the money to build somthing insane. What turbo are you running CAVI.DEMON?
Well PSI amount won't tell you your power output...the trim you're running and compressor housing size plays effect into your power output per PSI. If anything, you should ask others to list what trim and size turbo they have, the specs on it (a/r), PSI level they are running and if possible, their dyno results. It's alot to ask for but if even a couple people can give you a full answer, it'll help you out some and give you an idea of what to look for.
My suggestion also is to try and reach Lee and/or Ken 2.2 privately to get their opinions on their setups.
Good luck.
Well yeah, I completely understand that and all. Thats kinda why I didnt even want to start a new topic but I am kinda stuck as to which turbo I should be saving the money for. And I think the super 60 is an internal wastegate turbo and the t04e is external. So that would also play an effect on the manifold that I need. So really I am just asking if I have done the research right or if people think I am going in the wrong direction.
After allot of reading and talking with local guys that have and are putting turbos. We decided to get a
GARRET T3/T4B 0.7 A/R COMPRESSOR, 0.63 A/R TURBINE STAGE 2 TURBO WITH A 47 MM TRIM COMPRESSOR WHEEL.
This project is a 2200 every day driver car..... The horsepower goal is at 300, with engine mods.
Just remember, it's all about air flow......
P.S. check out "homemadeturbo", do a search in google.
later guys, love this place....
Well I think I have decided to just go with the super 60. Since I am not looking for insane power I think the internal wastegate and smaller turbo with probably suit me better. Its not written in stone for me yet but I also think I am going to use the greddy emanage. Now if I am correct I wont need to run an FMU because the emanage will basically cover up the ecu's fuel maps and allow me to "write" my own maps?
Also one thing that should be a simple search funtion result has set me into days of non answer. I think 310 cc injectors will be enough for about 8-10 psi. So if I understand right, I could just buy the injectors and they will plug right into my stock harness? And at what point is a larger fuel pump needed?
i had the same concern for my 2200. i have a called a bunch of turbo places and rea da lot of posts on here but i just dont know. they ask what my hp goal is and i would like 300 and up but i want to crank out the most amount of power possible. i am rebuilding the entire motor right now from the bottom up. and the tranny as well. so what are my figures looking like? could i hit over 350?
Rollinredcavi wrote:Well I think I have decided to just go with the super 60. Since I am not looking for insane power I think the internal wastegate and smaller turbo with probably suit me better. Its not written in stone for me yet but I also think I am going to use the greddy emanage. Now if I am correct I wont need to run an FMU because the emanage will basically cover up the ecu's fuel maps and allow me to "write" my own maps?
Also one thing that should be a simple search funtion result has set me into days of non answer. I think 310 cc injectors will be enough for about 8-10 psi. So if I understand right, I could just buy the injectors and they will plug right into my stock harness? And at what point is a larger fuel pump needed?
I don't know how reliable the e-manage is under boost with the 2200s...
Depending on what injectors you get...you might need to get the clips along with them.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
NJHK (The Turbo Negro) wrote:Rollinredcavi wrote:Well I think I have decided to just go with the super 60. Since I am not looking for insane power I think the internal wastegate and smaller turbo with probably suit me better. Its not written in stone for me yet but I also think I am going to use the greddy emanage. Now if I am correct I wont need to run an FMU because the emanage will basically cover up the ecu's fuel maps and allow me to "write" my own maps?
Also one thing that should be a simple search funtion result has set me into days of non answer. I think 310 cc injectors will be enough for about 8-10 psi. So if I understand right, I could just buy the injectors and they will plug right into my stock harness? And at what point is a larger fuel pump needed?
I don't know how reliable the e-manage is under boost with the 2200s...
Depending on what injectors you get...you might need to get the clips along with them.
What kinds of issues does the emanage present? I guess I can't understand why it would be any different than on other motors. I really kinda want to run some kind of piggy back system to get precise a/f ratios. It seems like every time I have seen an a/f plot using an FMU there are spikes and valleys all over the graph. I would think that running a piggy back system would allow a lot more fine tuning.
Rollinredcavi wrote:NJHK (The Turbo Negro) wrote:Rollinredcavi wrote:Well I think I have decided to just go with the super 60. Since I am not looking for insane power I think the internal wastegate and smaller turbo with probably suit me better. Its not written in stone for me yet but I also think I am going to use the greddy emanage. Now if I am correct I wont need to run an FMU because the emanage will basically cover up the ecu's fuel maps and allow me to "write" my own maps?
Also one thing that should be a simple search funtion result has set me into days of non answer. I think 310 cc injectors will be enough for about 8-10 psi. So if I understand right, I could just buy the injectors and they will plug right into my stock harness? And at what point is a larger fuel pump needed?
I don't know how reliable the e-manage is under boost with the 2200s...
Depending on what injectors you get...you might need to get the clips along with them.
What kinds of issues does the emanage present? I guess I can't understand why it would be any different than on other motors. I really kinda want to run some kind of piggy back system to get precise a/f ratios. It seems like every time I have seen an a/f plot using an FMU there are spikes and valleys all over the graph. I would think that running a piggy back system would allow a lot more fine tuning.
Well the problem with Piggybacks is that they are trying to manipulate something that is programmed. Yes, you can manipulate to a point but when you're trying to push out a high amount of fuel underboost compared to what the computer is programmed to do, it might fight with it. When I said "with the 2200s", I meant as far as their computers.
FMUs work but there are other ways of managing fuel like Standalone Units.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Yeah obviously a standalone would be the best option. But definatly not going to spend that much.
Rollinredcavi wrote:Yeah obviously a standalone would be the best option. But definatly not going to spend that much.
The AEM EMS is expensive, yes but there are other more inexpensive (compared to that one) standalones that are fuel oriented.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
NJHK (The Turbo Negro) wrote:Rollinredcavi wrote:NJHK (The Turbo Negro) wrote:Rollinredcavi wrote:Well I think I have decided to just go with the super 60. Since I am not looking for insane power I think the internal wastegate and smaller turbo with probably suit me better. Its not written in stone for me yet but I also think I am going to use the greddy emanage. Now if I am correct I wont need to run an FMU because the emanage will basically cover up the ecu's fuel maps and allow me to "write" my own maps?
Also one thing that should be a simple search funtion result has set me into days of non answer. I think 310 cc injectors will be enough for about 8-10 psi. So if I understand right, I could just buy the injectors and they will plug right into my stock harness? And at what point is a larger fuel pump needed?
I don't know how reliable the e-manage is under boost with the 2200s...
Depending on what injectors you get...you might need to get the clips along with them.
What kinds of issues does the emanage present? I guess I can't understand why it would be any different than on other motors. I really kinda want to run some kind of piggy back system to get precise a/f ratios. It seems like every time I have seen an a/f plot using an FMU there are spikes and valleys all over the graph. I would think that running a piggy back system would allow a lot more fine tuning.
Well the problem with Piggybacks is that they are trying to manipulate something that is programmed. Yes, you can manipulate to a point but when you're trying to push out a high amount of fuel underboost compared to what the computer is programmed to do, it might fight with it. When I said "with the 2200s", I meant as far as their computers.
FMUs work but there are other ways of managing fuel like Standalone Units.
since this is kind of going in a circle, allow me to elaborate.
Emange works like adam said, by manipulating inputs to the car's ecu, and yes it is limited to how much it can change something, but it will do it accurately and you will not have valleys and peaks in your air fuel ratio that is common with fmu (its difficult to tune with mechanical devices, electronics are a lot easier and more accurate).
The emanage controls not only fuel, but spark.. allowing you to advance or retard up to 20degrees of timing for n/a tuning, or boosted tuning. emanage ultimate claims to be able to remove speed and rev limiters, altho I've never had experience with that so I'm not sure if it would work or not (on an OHV i'm 75% sure it would)
ford green tops (440ccs... ebay)will plug right into the 2200 wires, altho GM s/c 2.4 injectors (aka 310s) will plug in as well.
you will not need an FMU. emanage will have you covered with fuel delivery and spark.
Its only limiting factor is it can only add fuel, not subtract and only up to 20% more than stock. But with larger injectors, you should be cherry.
Look into emanage ultimate, as it has more features, and lets you pull fuel as well as add. Its more expensive than the standard emanage, but is worth it for the extra tunability.
If you want complete and TOTAL control of your fuel system, look into MegaSquirt... its more of a DIY project, but it can do everything emanage can do, plus more... and it costs less.
Emanage information
Emanage Ultimate
MegaSquirt information
MegaSquirt
and btw, the super 60 will be a great turbo for the 2200 and will happily make around 250whp. If you do a head port and some valvetrain work that number should get very close to 280whp if not higher at or around 15psi (I'm guessing.. you may have to boost a little higher.. flow in the head is key.. this is the weakest area of the 2200)
Thanks for the great info guys. Its definatly answered questions that I have wondered about. I was thinking about megasquirt also but i dont know about the whole experamental DIY kind of program. This was the area of turbocharging that has me a little bit tied up, but this thread will definatly help.
Thanks PJ for being more detailed about it. I really couldn't answer his question fully cause I don't know 100% about how the E-manage works (especially on the 2200s).
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
I got love for the 2200s. And FYI that turbo is to big to get anywhere. Unless your built crazy like. I have it here sitting in my room. I took it off, and put my old on back on.
KEN 2.2 wrote:I have it here sitting in my room. I took it off, and put my old on back on.
how much?
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
