Ok during my msd use my plugs were black... after the msd went cold turkey on me again.. havent had time to work on it I have been using my stock ignition and took the plugs out tonight and they look immaculate, clean, smell like normal and everything....

what would cause one from the other?


only other thing we fixed was the turbo gasket and return and tightened my charge pipe connections since the msd went south



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

black = carbon = rich
that's all I know



I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26

I know what color and smells of spark plugs are

but going from one extreme to nearly perfect looking plugs is just odd to me



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Let's give this a try...
Here is the info I have to base this on. If I am lacking info taht would lead me in another direction, it is not my fault.

The info:
QBE= quick black Ecotec, meaning you have an Eco motor.
(From your registry: MSD Coils, MSD Coilpacks, MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor Wires)
I do not see a Cam sync generator listed).

From these 2 things I can infer that the PCM is not seeing a Cam sync pulse and therefore not running in sequential mode. Also, I can infer that as a result it is probably running in a mild "limp home" state and not entering true closed loop operation.

Eliminating the MSD allowed the ignition module's cam sync signal to become active again allowing the PCM to enter its fully normal operation state.

Mixture issues are now being 'tuned out' by the PCM.



sig not found

I would agree with you ^^^^
BUT
He has a camsync generator, and if there was truely a problem with the camsync pulse it would trigger a code, Philbert has no such codes

THis is a bit of a mystery then again we dont have anyone else to compare it to to see if this is common, I have a similar setup and my plugs are black but the tips are almost looking like they have a metal powder on them, I dont really know how to read plugs anyway



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

no wityh the msd my plugs were black..

since I put the stock ignition back in the plugs look amazing!



yes and I have the cam sync



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Was your check rocker light on?

Do you have any pictures of the plugs before and after. You are sure they were black from carbon and not oil stained/saturated? How many miles since you took off the MSD? How many mile did it take for the plugs to go black otherwise? Once the plugs went black did they ever go back?
Did you throw in new plugs or clean them?
Was the MSD pulling any timing before you took it off?



Cardomain|Myspace

yes from carbon they reeked of fuel, oooh like 200 miles maybe... not to long they were black maybe 100 miles after I put them in.. yes the plugs went fropm flat black to looking perfect and no I didnt clean them... no I do not know about the msd pulling timing




LE61T PTE6262 Powered

How many miles since the ignition swap? Change plugs at the same time? What other things have changed? Did you change oil since the ignition swap? Is the outside air temp quite a bit colder? Were you accidentally allowing air into the exhaust through an exhaust leak to fool O2 into asking for richer operation?

MSD = Must Soon Die as far as street parts go. I've had good luck with dedicated race ignitions though. MSD spark is generally higher voltage but lower duration than stock ignition. MSD switches from multiple spark to single spark after certain rpm, rpm number depends on number of cylinders and ignition type, so benefit of multiple spark goes away. Stock ignition system is actually computer controlled for maximum coil saturation time. OEM ignition can bridge parallel gaps of .080" which is helluva good.

-->Slow

i sauid about 200 miles since I went back to stock.. no I did not change the plugs, nothing else changed...



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Unusual for plugs to clean up that much in that short a time. Maybe you got a bit lean, and the carbon/ soot burned away. I think I'd swap back and forth a few times and stick with the ignition that gives the best result. No arguing with clean versus dirty plugs. But keep an eye on AFR to make sure you're not hitting a lean spot.

-->Slow

we havent had time to look at the MSD yet to see what caused the problem... but I do run a little on the lean side sometimes like high 12's.. but other then that its ok...



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Different motors, but on my 2.2 i kept pulling plugs to see what they looked like since i didnt have a wideband, and everythime they looked awesome not white, not black, just perfect. So i didnt worry about it to much, just pulled them after it cooled down from a hard run or so, and they always looked great. But then It blew up from being lean later that month. So i guess just because your plugs look awesome doesnt mean everythings dandy..thats what i thought. But im sure you have a wide band and can see the afr.

96 Camaro A4 383 12.5:1, E85, Full suspension, Nitrous outlet plate kit, hooker headers and catback, 3800 circle D converter.

2002 Silverado LQ4 6.0 CAI, Long tube headers, 4" exhaust

1996 s10- 97 ECU and wiring, soon to be boosted daily driver.