I'm looking for a turbo to use on my 2.4. This car is mainly going to be used on the track. I was wondering if anyone has any experience in using a ball bearing versus a journal bearing gt turbo. I was looking into using a gt3271 or maybe a ball bearing gt30. I don't really care how late it spools just as long as it can make about 500hp. Money is going to be considered but isn't a really big deal. Thanks for any tips, help, and advice.
Ah to have a car just for the track. I wish i was able to do that! I would like to know this too for the future. I want 500 hp boosted some day too.
PSN ID: Phatchance249
I explained this to you on AIM, but I don't think you got my point, it was hard to explain, but here's a graph:
Now, lets say you are the blue curve, with the bigger turbo, later spool, and higher horsepower, and I'm the red curve, earlier spool but less horsepower... who do you think is going to win the race?
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i don't see the point of having large turbos on our cars..... the redline for our cars is what ? about 6500 so i mean if u get a big turbo that doesn't spool up till about 4500 then its wortheless to me .. get a small turbo with hardly any lag .. u will like it more . trust me . like shifted said .. a bigger turbo is not always better...
blade0604 wrote:i don't see the point of having large turbos on our cars..... the redline for our cars is what ? about 6500 so i mean if u get a big turbo that doesn't spool up till about 4500 then its wortheless to me .. get a small turbo with hardly any lag .. u will like it more . trust me . like shifted said .. a bigger turbo is not always better...
If he is REALLY wanting this to become a track winner he will get a program that raises the rev limiter to what ever he needs.
Exactly. I know I should have posted that in the first post but my rev limiter will not be 6500. It'll be more like 7200-7500. And Shifted, I understand what you're saying but i just don't want something that'll spool early and only be able to run 15psi. (and don't start with the well 15 psi on one turbo isn't 15 on another. I know this. I think I should know alittle something about turbos to be trying this. No offense to anyone of course.) But back to one of my original questions, how much difference is there between the journal bearing and ball bearing gt's?
hahn has some rated that high and should be rather cheap.. and have a 12 month warranty. check em out. thats just their mid turbo too. g/l
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
Quote:
Brad Workman
Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:36 PM
Exactly. I know I should have posted that in the first post but my rev limiter will not be 6500. It'll be more like 7200-7500.
what kind of racing are you using this for?
I hope you know that raising the rev limiter isn't the only mod needed to spin higher revs. You have to do headwork, and i'm not just saying a port job. You need to increase spring stiffness in order to fight valve float, lighten the valves, enlarge them if you wish... make sure your crank is in good condition, bearings, rods, etc. The whole rotating assembly should be balanced and fortified. another 1000rpm on an aging motor is a bit risky...
if this were on your 2005, I'd say go for it. The ecotec bottom end is a lot stronger than the 2.4 with the lower girdle assembly that incorporates all the main caps into one giant brick of strength.
If you're making a road race or drag car with 500hp, this would be necessary.
Quote:
And Shifted, I understand what you're saying but i just don't want something that'll spool early and only be able to run 15psi. (and don't start with the well 15 psi on one turbo isn't 15 on another. I know this. I think I should know alittle something about turbos to be trying this. No offense to anyone of course.)
well not to offend you, but you don't have a clue.
most turbos can blow lots of boost, but the question is can they do it efficiently. 15psi on a small turbo like a T25 isn't a brick wall of if not working anymore... it'll still make more boost, just charge air temps will be very high since its way out of its efficnecy range by then (when paired with our motors).
You need to have a bit more of a plan when it comes to building this engine.. not just "500hp for a race car". What kind of racing is it? Where's your power band? Do you need good response when getting back into throttle (if applicable)? There's a lot more questions you have to answer before anyone can help you. 500hp in a 4 banger isn't impossible, but its not something you can just do easily either.
Plus, like Shifted was illustrating, 500hp for 300rpm isn't going to be fun. Spinning higher RPMs and making your head breathe more will let you run a larger turbo effectively, but dont get big cock syndrome. A smaller turbo will make more power for longer than one thats too big for an application. 480hp for 4000rpm will always beat out a car that makes 500hp for 1000rpm but 400 the rest of the time.
Quote:
But back to one of my original questions, how much difference is there between the journal bearing and ball bearing gt's?
Like I said before, you have to do some more decision making as far as what you want to make a decision between one or the other. If you're just a drag car you can get away with a journal bearing, but if you're doing road race or something where you'll be boosting for long periods of time, I'd suggest a water cooled ball bearing turbo so duarbility is incresed, and boost threshold is reduced. allowing you to runa slightly larger turbine without sacrificing spool and increasing overall potential power output.
The only downside to ballbearing water cooled turbos in my eyes is plumbing coolant hoses, and cost. And I can live with both of those pretty easily for the extra benefits they give
Fack that, GT35R.
Go horsepower or go home.
Just make sure you have a stout bottom end with a high flow head.
I love how someone has to post something that i didn't even ask. I didn't ask if it was possible. I didn't ask what was involved. All i wanted to know was did someone have any experience in the different gt's. This car is going to be strictly drag racing. Yes the head work is almost done. The bottom end is complete and balanced. The rev limiter is going to be raised. I love how everyone has an opinon on how too big my choices are but they can't suggest one themselves. Ron and Tony, thanks for your help with everything.
let me know when you get it done........ I wanna race ya.....
the GT ball bearing will spool faster...... thats about the only difference..... and even that depends on the A/R of the turbine....
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
Brad Workman wrote:But then again, I TheFlyingSquirrel (PJ) wrote:
don't have a clue.
here we go again... god you people are everywhere...
look you ask a question, you need to be specific.
Quote:
Brad Workman
Today 3:53 PM
I love how someone has to post something that i didn't even ask. I didn't ask if it was possible. I didn't ask what was involved. All i wanted to know was did someone have any experience in the different gt's. This car is going to be strictly drag racing. Yes the head work is almost done. The bottom end is complete and balanced. The rev limiter is going to be raised. I love how everyone has an opinon on how too big my choices are but they can't suggest one themselves. Ron and Tony, thanks for your help with everything.
you might have wanted to post those details a bit earlier... I posted this in my first post becuase you failed to mention the details of wtf you are doing
Quote:
You need to have a bit more of a plan when it comes to building this engine.. not just "500hp for a race car". What kind of racing is it? Where's your power band? Do you need good response when getting back into throttle (if applicable)?
I wouldn't have said that if you mentioned it...
How do I know if you're some 13 year old kid who has nothing but wet dreams about something he'll never have.
Why didn't you say the motor is already built? How the hell am I supposed to know you aren't some random tool bag?
this forum makes me sick.. you people are a dime a dozen
and just so you know, mr know it all
Quote:
I don't really care how late it spools just as long as it can make about 500hp
you DO care how late it spools because what if you get something so big it never spools? However, The GT30 and the GT32 are good choices for what you're doing I'd lean towards the GT30R tho...
I haven't done a compressor match but they should be more bias toward higher RPM better flowing engines (like your built 2.4).
Next time, try telling us what you're doing so I don't accidently chew you out
I'm sorry I didn't post details. I didn't mean to piss you off. I'm not one of those people that's just dreaming of something. I have the money to do it and I'll get it done. Thanks for your advice though.
Call Majestic Turbos in Waco, Texas. They have plenty experiance with GT Turbos.
All you had to do was ask, don't have to get mad.
gt3076r
99 Turbo Sunfire GT | Ram 2500 | International Rollback | Mr Hanky the Suburban
Hey,
Guess I should post on here since I was using the GT30R this past summer.
I got about 10psi by 3000 rpms and pulled like hell all the way up.
Look in my reg for what I have done to my motor.
Just to give an idea of what its capable of, I was maxing my 440cc injectors running at 70psi fuel pressure at WOT on 17psi. This is just touching what this turbo is capable of.
I am actually shooting to put down 500 hp on the dyno this comming season, so I should have more info to share in a few months.
Also, if you have seen my post a while back about my best run to date, I pulled off a 12.5 at 117mph on only 13.5 psi of boost spinning 3rd gear down the track.
I also did a run with the default wastegate pressure set at 7 psi and pulled off a 13.1 at 109 mph.
Both of these runs were done on my 17 in Falken Azenis. I have yet to get any runs in with the slicks.
But if that helps any i dunno, just thought I would put in my $.02 since I do not know of anyone else that has actually ran with a GT30R on a J...
Later,
Jeff
--------------------------------
2000 Turbocharged Silver Z24 5spd
Cardomain Site
and then there is Kane........ I worship the ground this guy walks on (basicly because I hope he drops his keys....... but anyway)........ if a GT30R worked for him, it will work for you...... just dont hope to be faster.....
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
Kane, sweet setup
i assume you have the gt3076? when they go bad have you had to buy a replacement outright or did garrett (or the vendor) replace it under warranty? what turbo were you running before?
99 Turbo Sunfire GT | Ram 2500 | International Rollback | Mr Hanky the Suburban
Exactly, I don't see why he gets off bitchin instead of answering the damn question. This is why i don't start threads. Only two or three people end up answering what you ask.
Chris Water wrote:Quote:
How do I know if you're some 13 year old kid who has nothing but wet dreams about something he'll never have.
Why didn't you say the motor is already built? How the hell am I supposed to know you aren't some random tool bag?
this forum makes me sick.. you people are a dime a dozen
and just so you know, mr know it all
What if he is a 13 year old, that does not mean he can't build a car or motor. Who cares if he is a took bag. Answer the question.
You do not need to know everything about his car to answer his question. I'm new here, but it seems some people want to be in everyones business. He did not ask people to tell him the difference in bigger turbo's to smaller ones. Just "anyone has any experience in using a ball bearing versus a journal bearing gt turbo" Which if you have experience tell, if not don't. Not what you think he should do, or what is your plan for this car. Truly why must you know why he is building the car...
I fixed your post since ya kinda messed up the quote tag
the reason I want to know why people want larger turbos is because most newbs (not you or original poster, but people in this forum in general) don't understand that smaller turbos can make decent power. the stereotype that 'you need a big turbo to make big power' isn't always true.
If people ask for advice on selecting turbos, usually you need to know the ends before you can choose the means.
Most of the tools here that ask about GT30s and larger or similarly sized turbos don't have engines set up to run them effecitvely. So in order to answer said questions, I make it my business to know what engine its going on, what the goals are and what the mods are. Usually, that information is required for
MATCHING a turbo to an engine.
and if you read the original post, you'd see that he did ask about ball bearing vs journal bearing, but he also asked specifically about the GT30R and the GT3271R
Constantly, the posts in this forum are poorly thought out, vague, and basically built on a lot of 
then to make it worse, when the poster is either questioned about the purpose of their set up or given a suggestion they get pissy. You asked the question... when others lend their ideas, you might want to listen since most of the people who do offer advice aren't the ones asking the questions.
This is why the people who actually know what they're talking about in this forum hardly ever respond. I guess I'm slow to learn my lesson when trying to put up with you people.
Quote:
This comment "this forum makes me sick" is so true for reasons like you
na, your post pretty much sums up why this forum is becoming almost as rediculous as versus.
But since you're so preturbed by this, my apologies for understanding how turbo systems work, how engines work, and how to properly match them together. I'll be sure to keep my mouth shut next time one of you fools asks a question.
I think the real problem is you and people like you think just because people are newbies on the org they are newbies to modding cars. I'm sure there is plenty of those people on here. How about treating everyone equal????? In your last response you summed it up. You do not think anyone knows more than you so you most tell them how to build there set-up. Let them learn. It is one thing to suggestions when in relationship to the question. I still do not think everything you gave was needed. He asked about those 2 types of turbo's. If you do not have any idea do not answer. I think that is why people are not responded to post on here, because too many people thinking they need to break down a complete motor build. Heck what do I know I'm a newbie. Your right FlyingSquirrel. Oh thanks for fixing my qoute.
LOL @ Brian. Thanks man, ill keep a lock on my keys if I ever see you
But Nah, It is the straight GT30R.
It is a long story, but working with my credit card company, I managed to get some money back. I am still out some money tho.
Honestly, Garrett would not warranty my turbo both times, putting blame on me even tho I followed every instruction I was told as this was my first ever ball bearing turbo, and wanted to be sure I did everything in my power to make it work right and keep working. I have heard that BB turbos are more picky and I guess that they are not joking as I went thru 2 of them in about 1 1/2 months. I got a company working with me right now to help determine the problem, so I will see what I find out from them.
But yea, the GT30R is a KICK ASS turbo. One word to describe my car at 16 psi... INSANE!
Holding with a 11 sec Domestic on the street spinning 3rd = Priceless, oh and this was just after the Domestic lifted both front tires off the ground right next to me...
That is the BEST story/race I have ever had....
But anyways....
Later,
Jeff
--------------------------------
2000 Turbocharged Silver Z24 5spd
Cardomain Site
