Ok, let me start by saying I've got an '88 bird so my electrical system is a million times simpler than most of you guys's. That said I'm thinking about putting in a push button start system. What I'm wondering is, is there a switch you can get that is normally open but will close when a key FOB or some kind of small transmitter is in the car or within like 10 feet of it. I know a lot of the new luxury cars have a system like this, just wondering if there's a standalone switch you can get.


<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock

Well, one way to do a 'secure' system is to get what's called a "Reed Switch" - it's a switch w/ wire's inside and when you place a magnet near it, it closes. So the reed switch, when activated, would trip a relay, and the relay would be hooked up to your push-start (you want a relay b/c the reed switch won't handle engine start amps).

I'm actually going to do push-start soon myself, but I will prolly go the easier method of putting a hidden switch in the car, hooked up to the above relay. I want to go totally keyless haha. First step will be shaving the car (handles, locks, spoiler, antenna, maybe gas, inner tails)

^^ Hey that's a good idea probably cheaper than a transmitter too. The transmission pin lock thingie broke in my bird and after I've dropped the column and wresteled with it for two hours, I"m just like "screw the key"


<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock

On second thoughts, it's an 88 Sunbird... how nice of a car could it possibly be? And you live in VA to boot, I dunno how big Winchester is... lol.

You have three wires that control just the start/running of the car (four wires go into the key cylinder, one is Acc). You could just hook up two swtiches, one on/off, one push. Hook the on/off to ground and On, hook the push to ground and Start. Bingo bango, done. Just try to get them looking nice, and if you want, you can run the wiring/switches to a hidden location so that people don't know how the h311 to start your car... Maybe even leave the cylinder in so that nobody knows you have push-start

lol yea just fiberglass over the key cylinder... and hide the push button start lol!

ask ur friend to go move ur car or something and toss him some random key hahaha

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On second thoughts, it's an 88 Sunbird... how nice of a car could it possibly be?

I know what you're thinking, this is some POS bucket of rust sunbird. This isn't just any 88 sunbird its the Sunbird GT convertible turbocharged. It looked pretty rough when I bought it but I'll have it looking decent before too long, My main focus is the engine so I'm not going to be shaving or anything like that (other than maybe the original switch) But I just don't want a big button that says start in the middle of my dash. I know how to wire the circuits I'm just looking for some kind of security measure. The Reed switch sounds like a good alternative to what I was thinking of, I'll research that. O BTW Winchester itself isn't that big but it is a suburb of Washington D.C. and I work in a lousy part of town so I do have to worry about someone taking a knife to my roof.

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ask ur friend to go move ur car or something and toss him some random key hahaha

LOL nice


<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock

how hard is it to hook up a push button start? and with this you can't turn the car on without pushing the Button? don't know much about this but ant to do it


Fast isn't always good, looks and sound is sometimes better

Imamarine

OK, I mentioned before that there's ground on the lock cylinder, I meant to say HOT (+) not ground. Here's a rough pic of what you can do...



Please keep in mind these are just random colors, I'm not sure of the exact colors used in J's. Also, the Acc Switch is aimed more at Imamarine b/c it looks like he wants radio real easy (Acc) - so Acc Switch would be optional, if used it would be a toggle like On - not push like Start. Most likely, the wiring going into the harness will be just like the color key in top left

Start
On
Hot
Accessory

Perhaps Mr. Goodwrench or some1 else on here knows the exact colors of which wire is what function... I recently had a recall work done, they installed a relay system for my ignition, so I'll open the steering column cover and see if the relay happens to be in there (most likely it'll be under the dash tho, not much space in the columns). Also, newer J's could have different color codes than an 88 J.

Marine, I notice you have a 99, most likely it'll be the same as my 2000, so I'll post my colors on Friday (I'm usually only online MWF - my office job w/ T1 haha) and maybe by then some1 will have more info on which wires need which switches (toggle or push)

thanks Roughing It that is good to go thanks


Fast isn't always good, looks and sound is sometimes better

Imamarine

I was looking into doing a setup like the new Vettes have, similar to your magnetic switch but the sensor will tell when a "key" is near and allow the car to start, plan on doing the same thing for the doors, just walk up to the car and lift the handle.

There are several ways to do this, in fact I just recently investigated some new ones for an S10 Blazer that my mechanic was working on for someone else. Another thing that's been done is a mini-plug or something else small that can be hidden in the glove compartment and then taken out when you leave the car. I'd short the contacts inside the plug and make a shorted plug required to start the car. If you use a jack that shorts when something's plugged into it, it's easier to defeat. If it's a shorted plug, it's still defeatable, but much more difficult. And, if it's in the glove box (and you can lock it), you've got a very cheap method of insuring that someone who watches you start your car on a normal basis might not have a clue. Also, if it's a common plug that you can replace easily, you won't be totally lost if you lose it. You'll have to get another plug and recreate it, but that's the easy part. Just an idea. Good luck!

aqua95 wrote:There are several ways to do this, in fact I just recently investigated some new ones for an S10 Blazer that my mechanic was working on for someone else. Another thing that's been done is a mini-plug or something else small that can be hidden in the glove compartment and then taken out when you leave the car. I'd short the contacts inside the plug and make a shorted plug required to start the car. If you use a jack that shorts when something's plugged into it, it's easier to defeat. If it's a shorted plug, it's still defeatable, but much more difficult. And, if it's in the glove box (and you can lock it), you've got a very cheap method of insuring that someone who watches you start your car on a normal basis might not have a clue. Also, if it's a common plug that you can replace easily, you won't be totally lost if you lose it. You'll have to get another plug and recreate it, but that's the easy part. Just an idea. Good luck!

That's one idea I was thinking of too, use maybe RCA plug or something. Or to make it harder to defeat, use the 4-pin DIN connector from a CB radio (you can buy just the connectors w/o the CB), and use both pairs of pins so that only a specific combination of wiring inside the plug will work.

I forgot to check the ignition wiring, I'll try to do it at lunch today.

extremefire wrote:I was looking into doing a setup like the new Vettes have, similar to your magnetic switch but the sensor will tell when a "key" is near and allow the car to start, plan on doing the same thing for the doors, just walk up to the car and lift the handle.

The only thing I don't really like about that idea is that your transmitter (key fob) uses batteries and if they die, you're SOL. As for the doors, I'm shaving mine this summer, so that would be a lil harder, b/c a transmitter would end up popping all four doors open (unless configured to only do the driver door) - K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid, haha

I suggested the mini plug because they're easy to find, but it's true that a multi-pin plug would be more secure. I'd check out what's available at more than one location, just in case you take a trip and might happen to lose your "security device." It'd be a real bummer to get 250 miles (or however far, it doesn't really matter) out of town where you purchased a buy-it-here-only-because-noone-has-it-at-all connector only to misplace it or lose it in the john at a truck stop (I've seen these things happen with fleet car keys....they don't float when the flush lever is pulled). You'd be stuck or spending some time rewiring your car just to get moving again, and trust me, that's no fun. The four pin din plug may be available at truck stops, I haven't looked. Heck, use a four-ping rubber trailer wiring connector. They're available everywhere for a resonable amount. Harder to mount and hide, but definitely easy to replace should it disappear unexpectedly.

As to the special key fob, it can be done with the same type of devices that do card-wave security doors at office buildings. The cards have no power at all, but the reader that you pass the card in front of transmits a signal that "excites" the card and causes it to emit a coded signal in return. The reader picks this up and decodes it, either allowing or disallowing the door to open. The problem with this method is the large amount of fabrication, parts procurement, and complexity of the system. In addition, if you lost the card, you'd still be in the same position as before.

Follow the KISS principle if at all possible, you're only making it less convenient for someone to take the car, not impossible. A thief with enough determination will defeat most of what we might add to our cars to protect them. It's got to be a really complex and well-hidden system to make a difference. In the case of the 'vette, I think it's so integrated to the rest of the car that it's a pain to disable, hence making it an undesirable target in the eyes of a car thief (without a rollback car hauler).

Actually, we've even used a cigarette lighter element that was modified to allow the car to start. They're easy to come by, but hard for people to recognize as a security device.

Now I've gotten off the subject to additional security devices, and wavered from the original question. I'm gonna quit while I'm ahead! Hope I didn't confuse matters too much!

Aqua, the DIN connector is available at any electronic store, truck stop, pretty much anyplace that has CB radios for sale (dunno bout places like Wal/K Mart, AutoZone, Pep Boys, but w/e). Anyway, back on topic....

OK, so I ripped my column apart during lunch, and found some messed up crap. First, the ignition relay I mentioned above is in the engine compartment, noticed it Wed nite when I was working on my car. Second, from what I can see (being 6' 135ish lbs w/ a bad back it's not easy to see into the column) there are only three wires going into/out of the cylinder. Two black and one off-white. This harness is about 2-3" long and then connects to another harness (for easy removal of cylinder of course), the second harness has 1 black, 1 off-white, and 1 yellow wire. Like I said, I can't really get around the column easily, so I can't tell if there is another harness connected somewhere. I couldn't take pics b/c I forgot my camera at home (stupid stupid stupid, lol).

I just checked www.the12volt.com and found nothing about the harness inside the column, I think the harness they talk about is somewhere else (has like 5 wires, all diff colors) 2000 Chevy Cav Info

Roughed,
I took a look at the12volt following your link, and you're correct. It doesn't mention anything about that on a 2000 cav. I did check Bulldog security (halfway decent source for secondary information), and they show that a T-harness and passlock bypass is necessary for that model year. Could it be that the 3-wire harness is for the contacts for the key transponder? Just thinking out loud (or with my fingers, your choice...) here.