(Thanks in advance for any help, btw...)
Here's what I have now: all stock, 95 Sunfire SE
What I'm starting to build up:
Older JVC headunit (KD-S570). It says 40Wx4 on the front. I don't know the RMS rating and it only has one set of pre-outs and no sub control.
Audiobahn ported enclosure (ABP10T): 2 10" subs (rated 600W RMS for the box -- by CarDomain, anyhow). These are single voice coils @ 4 ohms.
4 Polk db650 (6.5") 60W RMS @ 4 ohms (2 for front door panels and 2 for behind the front seats in the wall panels (next to the rear passenger seats))
2 Jensen XS1693 (6x9) 60W RMS @ 4 ohms (for in the rear deck)
2 Farad Power Acoustic cap
(I'm not trying to start with the "killer" system, btw, I'm just trying to get things off of the ground and still give myself a bit of "room to grow" that's why it's kind of Frankenstein right now).
I'm also considering adding 2 tweeters (to be placed in the "hanger cutouts" above the triangle windows in the coupe). But is this overkill?
Should I do a monoblock amp for the subs? I've been considering the Phoenix Gold Octane-R 8.0:1 which is 800Wx1 (max power) @ 2 ohms. If the enclosure is wired in parallet will this be enuf for the subs?
I figure that I'll need another amp to run the rest of the speakers (since the headunit is so NOT powerful), but which one? I like the Phoenix Gold look (not crazy about Audiobahn like so many others).
And I guess I'll need a crossover, too?
Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated...
This 2 to 4 ohms stuff is giving me a headache... LOL
L8r...
___________
. . . . jb . . . .
...Son Fire!
*** Need some 1995 Cavalier parts ???
*** FOR SALE: doors, windows, interior, engine parts, fenders, etc. -- email me
Ok first of all it is a JVC deck...... Get rid of it... Yea some people like them but i have to tell you, I sell these all day long and they are the biggest piece of crap. But not only that, it isn't going to help you in the long run either. like you said, single preout and no sub controls. Sounds like a $100 deck. Get something with 3 preouts and sub controls.
Now the audiobahn enclosure is nice if you want volume.. If you want clarity you shouldn't go that way. A bandpass box is going to give you deep bass but it isn't going to hit. Go with a nice sealed or ported box that meets the subs requirements. It can out perform a bandpass any day.
Polk audio 6.5 speakers..... they are nice no complaints here....
JENSEN?!?!?!? NO don't.... You are going to put some nice Polk Audio speakers up front and Jensen's in the back???? they are $20 speakers, you might as well keep you stock speakers in... Stick with Polk all around. It will keep the sound balanced all around and just sound better..
Power acoustic cap, more power to ya....
I say no tweeters. The coaxials will give you enough. Trust me i have them in my car..
Phoenix Gold Octane-R 8.0:1, I don't know much about these amps. I've herd nice things though. However, never go by peak power, your amp will NEVER reach that. Go by what is stated RMS power. And you wont need a crossover, they are built into all of the amps now. unless of course you want that look.
This is all my opinion of course. i mean if it sounds good to you do it.
I say drop the stuff in for now. You have it, and you can always upgrade at a later date. The phoenix gold amp is gwood, go for it!!! As for the 6x9, sure they're not top of the line, but they'll give you a little better rear fill than the stock ones will, since they are 4 ohm instead of 10 ohm like the stock. Make some adapters for your polks in the front, and you'll be golden. That is until you decide you wanna upgrade again, and again, and again
Beat it like it owes you money
im assuming you have all this stuff, is so, sell the 6x9's, you dont need them, youve allready got polk 6,5's for in back, not sure on the phoenix gold amp. but whatever amp u buy for the sub, try and find one with a remote level control. then u can control the volume of the bass with it and u wont have any need for a new headunit right off the bat. i'd try and find a decent 4 channel amp. or even a 2 channel amp to feed your speakers up front. dont bother buying tweeters, if your going to buy anything buy a componet set for up front instead of using coaxials.
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Sunfire Ray: You are right re: the head unit, but it is going to have to suffice for now. Since my funds are limited and I really need those amps...
Lanman is right. I'm going to drop in what I have (for now) and then I'll do some upgrading later. I've already started looking for a unit with more preouts and sub controls.
Question: I had a guy tell me that one headunit 3 preouts are usually the same as 2 preouts + sub control on another head unit. Is that true?
Thanks for the info, guys, re: Phoenix Gold, btw. I'm pretty sold on them now -- I just need to find a good place to get them for a reasonable price... That being said:
Will the Phoenix Gold Octane-R 8.0:1 which is 800Wx1 (max power) 2 ohms with an estimated RMS value (that I found elsewhere on the Internet) of 600W be enough to power my subs? The subs are 600W RMS (total) @ 4 ohms w/single voice coils.
Eventually, I'll be upgrading the bandpass box as well. Right now, volume is fine -- clarity will come with time... Boy that sounded really DEEP! LOL Same thing with the Jensen 6x9s (they will most likely be replaced with Polks as well).
sndsgood: I'm gonna drop the tweeters. Thanks for the input. I will definitely keep my eyes open for an amp with remote level control (or at least an option). Have any suggestions?
I'm also gonna drop the crossover -- thanks Sunfire Ray.
Btw, what's wrong with the Power Acoustic cap? I thought they were decent -- not great, but decent?
Thanks again...
L8r...
___________
. . . . jb . . . .
...Son Fire!
*** Need some 1995 Cavalier parts ???
*** FOR SALE: doors, windows, interior, engine parts, fenders, etc. -- email me
not sure if phoenix gold has a remote volume control on any of their amps or not, i know kicker does, and several other companies.possibly jl not sure who else really without doing some looking.
the outputs are the same wether they label them a front or rear or sub output its still an rca, the only diffrence is on a headunit with a sub output it will most likely have a feature to adjust the sub output, but most headunits have controls to fade rca's in and out regardless of what its called. if u had a remote volume control. it wouldn't even be nessicary.
seriously though, dont bother putting the 6x9's in, the polks are much better quality, in audio, more isnt better, the jensons are going to hurt the quality of sound, not help it.
imagine two people singing in perfect harmony. these are your polk speakers, now add one of those loser rejects off of american idol that cant carry a tune to the mix. this won't help out the other two perfect singers, its just going to mess the music up.
as for the phoenix gold amp, yes it will push those subs, youlle get roughly 300 watts a piece, and if im reading u right u said 600 total to both subs, so im assuming the rms for each sub is 300, if so youlle be fine. if the rms is 600 watt a piece on each individual sub, youlle still be fine, you just wont be using the sub to its full potential.
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At least you are planning on up grading the speakers.. i say the hell with it throw them in, it is better than stock right now.
now the thing about the pre outs is the one with the three pretty much has three. you know you have the front rear and sub. The one with 2 pre outs and sub controlls is still only 2 preouts but you have the option of putting one of them on the subwoofer with bass controlls right from the deck. or by going to a 4 channel amp for your front and rear speakers.
As for the cap, i wasnt bashing it, it is a good thing. Power Acoustic makes some pretty solid stuff.. Their amps are nice, but their speakers blow easily. trust me, my girl went through 4 subs in 2 months. Awesome bass tho..
oo yea the remote gain controll is a really nice thing to have. However there is an advantage of having a deck with sub controlls seperate. If the deck has sub controlls it usually has a built in crossover also. this way you can elininate all of the bass from your speakers.
o wait you are putting in a 4 channel amp to run 6 speakers.. you are still going to need the 3 preouts no matter what. the deck can only handle 4 speakers.
a deck that would be awesome for you would be the Audiobahn A3451D.. It is AM/FM, CD, DVD. 4 preouts (Front, Center, Rear, and Sub). the only reason is because it gives you the additional preout for the extra speakers you are putting in. It also gives you every feature possible. check it out.
Audiobahn
realistically he could run everything off of the one single amp. u dont nessicarily need a preout for each individual speaker. ive ran 8 speakers, a complete system off a single 4 channel amp. most amps nowadays have built in crossovers, so one on the headunit wont nessicarily be needed. the deck can handle more then 4 speakers as long as its is wired up to send 4 ohms to the headunit, but seriously. dont bother with the jenson 6x9's their going to hurt your sound. sell them to a friend or even a stranger and put that money towards upgrading to componets up front.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Ok I've tried to read every post but most of them just kept saying the same thing.
Here goes my input.
JVC kds570 is a $100 deck. Which is not a bad thing but if you want the extra controls later on, like the equalizer, and sub control, just move on up to and deck over $150, now thats in canadian funds as I am a canuck.
The polk speakers are great but unless they are a component tweeter combo you should still think about getting tweeters later on. There is some relatively decent priced one's out there. Just invest on buying some capasitors instead of going all out and buying a crossover.
Your stock 6x9's are good enough, well better than the jensen ones for sure. In about 1 year to 2 years though you will hear the distortion in them because they won't be able to handle close to what the polk speakers can.
For an amp the best advice I can give you would be to go with either a 4 channel kicker amp or a 4 channel mtx amp. With the mtx amp don't cheap out and go with their Road Thunder series as its pure poopy, go with the step up anyone who's heard them knows the difference. The mtx amps are decently priced and when compared to most amps they smack them down.
Now you can take my word, not dissing anyone if they don't want to, but like others on this site we give our oppinions to help and it just so happens that alot of us either sell, install, or plain old experienced folk. I happen to sell/install at a Future Shop so I hope I know what I'm talking about.
Thanks to all for the continued input!
Here's what I have done in the last fews days:
I went ahead and bought 2 Phoenix Gold amps: the Octane-R 8.0:1 monoblock (300W RMS x1 @ 4 ohms) and the Octane-R 8.0:4 4-channel (75W RMS x4 @ 4 ohms). Both amps have pre-outs and can accept a sub controller which I also ordered.
Crutchfield was running a special and threw in the neons for the sub amp and the voltage meter (not that I need it, but it'll look good on the dash).
Based upon your guys' suggestions I'm gonna keep and upgrade (at a later date) these items:
--the Audiobahn enclosure with subs: possibly go to two separate subs in sealed, custom boxes
--the head unit: eventually get one with at least 3 pre-outs and a sub control built in
--the "dreaded" Jensens: get the Polk 6x9s when I have the dough. Regardless of whether I use these, I'm planning on running the wiring anyhow...
Sunfire Ray: I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the Jensen's yet. If I do use them, then I will run them off of the head unit, with the Polks running off of the 4-channel and the subs off of the monoblock. If I don't use them, I will sell them and put the $ towards the Polk 6x9s as sndsgood suggested.
I love the example of the two people singing in harmony. Good example -- I actually understood that one easily -- Ha! Usually, it takes me a bit longer... If I use the Jensens, I figure that I could easily turn them down (if necessary) and just use them as background fill/noise!
sndsgood: I checked out the Audiobahn A3451D. Wow, talk about options! It's waaaaayyyyy out of my price range, tho, but the I checked out the Audiobahn A3451 and it is more affordabl, but I will have to do some more research. I'm not really planning on any video ICE anyhow...
I THOUGHT that cap was okay -- I wasn't sure how you were reacting in your post, tho... LOL
4BANGR: I was suprised that you think the stock 6x9s are better than the Jensen's. When I pulled them out, sheer magnet size alone would make me think that the Jensen's are better. The GM speakers have simple paper cones and weigh next to nothing compared to the Jensen's which certainly LOOK more impressive. I must admit, however, that I have been very pleased with my stock system and really haven't decided to pursue upgrading it until now anyway (after 10 years, I needed a change -- and a big change it will be! LOL). I did look at MTX and some Kicker amps, but their price range and some of the opinions I received swayed me toward the Phoenix Gold's which will do nicely for now.
Why will the Jensen's distort in a few years worse than the stock 6x9s??
My last question for you guys:
Would it be better to run the pre-outs from the headunit to the monoblock amp and then from there to the 4-channel amp? The sub-controller manual says that the sub-controller (if used on the Master amp (not the Slave amp)) will control the bass output of ALL of the amps if used that way... Suggestions?
Thanks again for your time, input, and patience with me. I really appreciate it!
L8r...
___________
. . . . jb . . . .
...Son Fire!
*** Need some 1995 Cavalier parts ???
*** FOR SALE: doors, windows, interior, engine parts, fenders, etc. -- email me
hey hold on there... sndsgood didn't post about the deck and the cap. I did.... I would at least like the credit... come on man..... lol
My bad -- I made a new paragraph, but didn't add your name... LOL
Thanks again for the help!
L8r...
___________
. . . . jb . . . .
...Son Fire!
*** Need some 1995 Cavalier parts ???
*** FOR SALE: doors, windows, interior, engine parts, fenders, etc. -- email me
yeah i wouldn't suggest an audiobahn equipment so it wasnt me.
also i suggest taking the money for the jensons and putting them towards componet set for the front, not for more speakers behind your head.
heres why the stock speakers could be better then jensons, magnet weight doesnt nessicarily mean good. once the public head that magnet weight meant a good speaker, all the cheap companies started putting bigger and bigger magnets on to keep fulling consumers. secondly your stock speakers though cheap and paper, were designed to sound best i your very car. the stock speakers when the bass is removed from them dont sound to bad actually (for stock) i'd still ditch them and just go without them. the more speakers you have behind you the less realistic yoru sound is going to be. to me it makes about as much sence as going to a concert and standing with my back to the musicians. as for where to run the rcas really doesnt matter, you should only have bass coming out of the subs anyway so there is really no need to have sub output control on your 4 channel amp.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
personally, i would run a pair of rca's per channel. that way , you cna adjust fade and balance.
Actually, so would I! LOL
Right, now my deck only has one pre-out. I don't think there is a way to accomplish fade control using my amps in conjunction with it...
Eventually, I will upgrade the deck to something with at least 3 pre-outs, as per the audio gurus suggestions...
Thanks for your suggestion, tho!
L8r...
___________
. . . . jb . . . .
...Son Fire!
*** Need some 1995 Cavalier parts ???
*** FOR SALE: doors, windows, interior, engine parts, fenders, etc. -- email me
Thanks for the input. I will definitely look into that one. Crutchfield isn't selling it anymore anyhow, so I'd have to find it elsewhere...
L8r...
___________
. . . . jb . . . .
...Son Fire!
*** Need some 1995 Cavalier parts ???
*** FOR SALE: doors, windows, interior, engine parts, fenders, etc. -- email me
Alpine doesn't maket eh 9827 anymore, but they make the 9830, which is a step up. it supports xm and sirius.
Sounds like you're getting some good advice and suggestions. I'd pick a deck with three pre-outs, as suggested, but I wouldn't do much more for the sub out than set the crossover point (if you use that crossover instead of the one in the amp...which I wouldn't do) and the output level. I'd leave it alone after I'd set it up, though. Since you ordered the remote bass level control for the PG, I think you'll find that it does what you need more effectively than the head unit can. Having multiple controls on a single line out (or in) can easily lead to excess distortion. The typical consumer (which it doesn't sound like you are, thankfully) will turn up one control more than they should, and will distort the signal on one end or the other. This distortion often manifests as a clipped signal passed to the input of the amp. The average listener often don't know what they're listening to well enough to discern the sound of this clipped signal. If you allow clipping on the input signal to the amp, the amp simply does it's job and amplifies the clipping, feeding an extremely high-powered, possibly clean, yet clipped, signal to your subs...which can cause them to blow. You're getting extremely good suggestions, though, I'd follow them and enjoy the new toys!!
