Recently I was awarded my second ticket for prohibited noise so that has me considering an SQ build since I dont need more fines and if the 15 is here Im going to still want to use it.
So what are so recommendations on an SQ sub?
Im thinking Im going to stay with my Sundown amps and run the 1000D at 4 or 2 ohms. Which would put me at 300 and 500 watts respectively.
The kick panels are probably going bye bye along with the Boston comps. Ive talked with Dustin a little bit about some Rainbow stuff up front. Anyone else have any brands they prefer?
And finally, any advice for SQ? Ive never delved to deep into this type of build since Ive been all about getting loud since I had my original gear.
i thought hat sub was an sq sub... i always like the xcons, i heard one one time and it was real nice. not loud, just good sounding i guess. no mechanical noise at all.
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Well like anything else, budget plays a key factor man. You can keep with the PMing me or we can talk here more on Rainbow fronts, and whatever sub fits the budget best. Honestly, with the right enclosure and tuning, you can make a lot of subs work great. Just gotta know what you can spend and what all you are upgrading.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
JLAudioCavalier wrote:Well like anything else, budget plays a key factor man. You can keep with the PMing me or we can talk here more on Rainbow fronts, and whatever sub fits the budget best. Honestly, with the right enclosure and tuning, you can make a lot of subs work great. Just gotta know what you can spend and what all you are upgrading.
agreed, people spend to much time worrying about the sub when it only plays 10% of what you hear. with sound quality installation is everything, if you have a 15 in there keep the 15. just because its sound quality doesnt meant it has to be smaller subs and less power, hell if i start competing again i'd likely try to fit a 15 in there that can play really low personally. ive been running image dynamics for a while now. they have good quality. if you really want to go sq be just as concerned about install as you are about the name on the speaker, to many people think having a quality system is just buying the most expensive speaker and throwing them in the car. then when there not happy with the results they just buy more expensive gear and throw it in wondering why other cars sound better. decent speakers in a top notch install can kill the most high end speakers just thrown in the car. rainbow are great, another brand ive had intrests of trying is hybrid audio technologies. they have been tearing up the sq circuit a bit and are built by a former competitor.
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Budget is something around $250 for the fronts. Im kicking around doing the woofer in the door and the tweeter in the window sails or the A pillars. I just need to figure out what to do with my manual window handle on the driver side.
Im kinda wanting rid of the 15 too since I would like my trunk space back for the most part. Im tired of stacking stuff in the back seat. But I could do something like 2 cubes sealed and tune the box to the subs Fs. Ive been reading a lot on sealed vs ported in SQ and Im leaning towards sealed since sealed yields a flat frequency response as opposed to a peaked response curve and I want a flat response in SQ right?
In my opinion, when people are looking for an "sq" install in a daily driver, I think a flat response across the board with good clarity and crispness at all volumes. A lot of people who want "sq" in daily driven cars really are looking for all frequencies to be cleaner, crisper, and louder. They usually think of it as "well I had an spl system(loud subs, stock everything else). But I want SQ now(upgraded and loud fronts to match some fairly loud subs)." That is how a lot of people think with this stuff.
$250 for front components? I can definitely do that. Rainbow, again, not to whore the brand so much, but has some absolutely amazing sounding 2-way components in that price range. I use them so much because most people don't budget $500-$1000 for fronts, and when it comes to top notch quality and sound in the more "budgeted" price ranges, NO ONE that I have used comes close to Rainbow. Anything $500 or less, they will be my first recommendation with a couple others close behind. BUT, I don't like calling my dealer and talking pricing and options until someone is sure they are buying soon, so if Rainbow is something you want to try out, I will see what the best deal is on the best components in your price range is.
And like I said before, and like Jason said, the brand of sub is not going to be everything. IDQ's do pretty darn well in sealed enclosures though and don't require a whole @!#$ ton of space. I would say a pair of 10" IDQ's in a sealed box, with enough power and the right person tuning everything would be perfectly fine.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
I do want a flat response. Im not so much looking for loud like I have now. I just want to build a system where I can install it and say that Im satisfied for quite awhile.
I have been looking pretty closely at the IDQs but I was leaning more towards a 12 or a set of 12s.
I have an idea to install the subs facing forward in the trunk passage and sealing it off. Though Im not sure how that would sound.
Edit for more Google SketchUp awesomeness:
The amp would be mounted from the rear to hide the mounting feet.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:02 PM
If sealed off from the trunk, it will sound great.
So now... budget on sub(s)? what amp(s) you running to it/them? and what amp for highs?
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
Im looking at around $300 on a sub which would set me up for a v3 iDQ. I can get the v.2 for like $180. v.3 appears to have a cast basket and a slightly different motor than the v.2.
Im running the SAZ1000D for the sub. Probably at 2 ohms which is something like 500 watts.
SAX-50.4 for mids and highs. Rated at 50 watts per channel. Id like to go active when I feel comfortable with my abilities.
Ill probably pick up an inline EQ or something like that later on.
For SQ if you can handle going with a higher impedance you should do it. Servo Circuits control subs better as impedance goes up (at a cost of power)
you don't want a flast responce. what your wanting is a smooth responce. a perfectly flat responce will sound bland and lifeless. not to mention with all the reflections in a car your not going to get a flat responce. as for the sub. you can do either or. both can have a good sound as long as your building them to be good. a sealed box will be a much more forgiving box then if you screw up a ported box. i tend to stick with sealed because i don't need a crap ton of bass. and because your box size is allot smaller, and in a j, you dont have a ton of room to begin with. a single 12 is fine. build it a bit bigger then reccomended to get a nice low responce. with id that should get you down in the 14hz range. if your going to point them forward and seal them off, thats great too. just make sure you seal them off. you have large opening on your rear deck, will have to make some small fiberglass tubs for where the trunk arms come into the rear deck area and then on each side below the windows you have opening in that metal. seal them all off so you have a truly sealed off setup. this will yield the best results.
for your fronts, dont do mids in the doors down low and tweeeters in the a-pillar or sail panels or your going to get bad seperation between the two and its going to muddy the soundstage. your female vocals sound will fluctuate between down low and up high. keep the tweeter close to the mid, and when all is said and done and if stage height is still an issue you could look at adding a seperate set of tweeters up high with reduced volume and crossover points to gently raise the stage up. as for crossovers for them if you buy a quality set of componets its going to come with a quality set of crossovers built specifically for those speakers, and most amps now have good built in crossovers allready so theres really not a need to go active unless your mixing and matching speakers. (mid/tweeter)
and be careful with your eq choice. having 30 band or so seems great but it takes allot of time to tune to get it right and if your not great at tuning you can turn a good sounding system into a crappy system real quick, so don't overdo it.
as for the impendence. it used to be a big issue when distortion levels were allot higher, now with most quality amps on the market you wont hear distorion from 4 ohm or 2 ohm so your not as limited as it used to be. who cares if your distortion jumps from .1/2% to 1% if that is still below human abiliity to pick it out.
as for your picture of the setup. i'd suggest making a seperate box and a seperate panel to hold the amps in place. then make a trimplate to go overtop of evertyhing to look nice, that way you can easily just pull your trim ring off to get to the controls and make adjustment if nessicary.
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I think Ill go with D2 coils so I can switch to 1 ohm from 4 ohm if I ever have the desire too.
Im not going to be able to do that setup I drew up since there isnt enough space in that area to do it.
But I still thinking Im going to seal it off. Just cause it saves me the most trunk room and it looks nice too.
Doesnt the RTA measure how flat the response is across the freq range? I know some people hate how flat systems sound but isnt that the goal for SQ competitors?
Ive also been kicking around building some door pods like Brad's but in the little carpetted area where the speaker grille is in my door panel but I still havent done anything with FG so Im a little hesitant about hacking up my door panel if I cant make the pod work how Id like.
My response is flat -5 points above 75Hz. and it sounds great. I don't take subs into account when I EQ because flat response doesn't have as much bass as I'd like.
I'd recommend building your system then flattening it out with an RTA and a good mic, then adjust to suit your liking.
it's a whole lot of subjective stuff man. Everyone is going to like things slightly different. I mean, rather than worrying about what SQ competitors' goals usually are, worry about what you ears like. Tune to YOUR taste. @!#$ everyone else.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
I drew up my final goal for the setup so Ill post it up when Im home. Im not posting from my laptop.
Now Ive just got to get the Z15 and box sold.
Should I give my dealer a call? ALSO, he cuts goooood deals if you buy more than JUST one thing like speakers
think of how kick ass a couple Rainbow iPaul amps would look. Compact, great sound, plenty of power, and tons of adjustments available right at the amps. haha not trying to upsell you or anything, but I will still look into at least the fronts.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
Those are some sexy amps but new amps arent in the budget now. Im a poor high school kid soon to be a poor college kid. Gimme a break. Hahahha.
Im actually impressed by the amount of crossover flexibility and adjustments on my SAX amp.
One of my friends/coworkers might buy my box and sub but I have to wait a day or two to find out. Ive also got pending sales on the kick panels I just need to get some people some pictures. That means I just need to get rid of my Memphis coaxials and Boston components.
Edit for pictures:
This is what Im shooting for. I did the design with exact dimensions this time. I could get the amps on there but I have a feeling theyll be crammed and itll look silly. The enclosure is approximately 1.5 cubic feet. Something like 14.5x16x11 I think.
Edit 2 for boredom and possible amp placement:
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Monday, March 15, 2010 10:13 PM
looks like a cool layout man.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
no the goal for sound quality competitors is to have the most accuratly reproduced music with an accurate soundstage. rta is used to graph where each frequency range is. its not a sound quality device, its a tool. like a mutlimeter is. you dont lose points on the rta if your respsonce is not flat. you lose points on the rta when you have tooo much diffrence between one frequency to the next. if you want to win rta you have a smooth responce. not a flat responce, a perfectly flat responce sounds bland and lifeless. it doesnt sound good. people use the rta to get the curve smooth from frequency to frequency and then the real tuning begins. they generally try to get the curve flat to start off with because that gives them a good starting point for actually tuning the system. it is just a starting point, its not a finishing point. now. a flat responce will sound good in a perfectly sound proofed room where there is no chance of reflection or natural bumps or boost to frequencies. but unless you want to place your system in a million dollar room. its worthless. the car naturally bumps and boosts diffrent frequencies, and changes the way things are perceived to sound. not to mention your dealing with tons and tons of reflections from every solid piece of plastic ,glass or metal in the car. your ears are the only important tuning device you really need. i almost never use an rta to tune with. the only times ive used one were when i was having issues and i couldn't figure out where those frequncies were. holes some people call them where frequncies just dissapear no matter how high you adjust your eq point because its an install issue and not a tuning issue. for instance i was lacking midbass and i couldnt get the midbass higher no matter how high i boosted the midbass freuqncies, i used an rta and it showed that even though i was boosting the signal. the freuncy wasn't coming up. i soon found my kick pod had came unattached and i was getting cancellation in those frequncies.
stop getting hung up on rta and sound quality. sound quality is how good something sounds. rta is just a tool to measure frequency responce. it doesnt tell you how good something sounds. and as far as competiton goes no one usues it anymore except iasca(if they even stil use it) and it was really only added into competition for a money making tool anyway. meca was doing it for awhile. but it was a seperate competiton. no sound quality involved. ask any serious competitor who was involved with iasca. if they were in it heavily they had a tune setup for rta and a tune setup for sound quality testing, because a great score on the rta didnt give them a great score in the listening portion. its why it was a big money making deal because all the serious competiors ended up using 3 seperate eq's. a two left channel eqs and a right channel eq. one left channel eq was set for sound quality, the other was setup for a flat rta score. they would just flip whichever eq on that they needed. during rta testing they would fade over to the left channel so only the sound from the rta tuned eq was on. it was pushed big time by audio control. who were supplying most eqs at the time.
as far as your new sub box design remember that that opening isn't straight up. it angles back so thats going to effect how your box is built. i'd just look at doing a large flat piece on the back to hold the amps. then still do a trim piece to cover themup and hide some of the trunk.
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It angles a little bit but I still want to be able to get the seat up so its going to recessed from the opening a bit. And the trim piece will probably be a different shape Im just trying to give myself and idea of the layout.
Did you price any components out yet Dustin?
Well its the exact measurements of the opening. I still suck at SketchUp so Im definitely not taking my final build measurements from it. Im going to try to leave an inch or an inch and a half from the back of the seat. So its not going to be flushed out.
I haven't priced anything out yet, but if $250 is the budget for components, and you are surely looking to buy sometime soon, I will give him a call right now.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
I would be able to now but Im waiting on payment from a fellow member for my services.
i sent him an email. less "omg need it right now" than a phone call and lets him take his time and look things over and such. We shall see in the next couple hours I hope. If not, tomorrow.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
