OK, I'm quoting this from my Regionals forum, so some parts you may be thinking "When did you tell me that?" but I meant it at my local people haha.
Quote:
Who wants to buy Ashley from me??? A&E note: Ashley is my 2000 Cav LS
I think I told yall on Monday that she wouldn't start in the morning, so I had to drive my truck *illegally* to work.
The bidnatch decided to TheftLock again last night when I was leaving work, so I got stuck here in the cold for an extra 15 minutes. I figured I'd try to get around the damn TL since I have the ignition warranty repair (for those that don't know, GM added a relay between the ignition/key cylinder and the starter), so I dis-connected my amp wire and was going to use it to apply power directly to the starter relay - with the key turned to "On" of course lol. I get the wire disconnected from the big fuse, than the wire falls off the battery terminal (I really need to solder the terminal onto the wire haha), than a few seconds later I hear kinda quiet music all of a sudden - but there weren't any cars close by. I look in my car, and the radio and gauges are on. Sit down and try to start the car, and it was turning but not really starting, so I start pumping the gas - yes, I know that you're not supposed to do that on fuel injection - and she finally started up and I went home.
Wake up this morning at 8, so I was already gonna be pretty late to work (since I start at 8), hurry up and dress, etc. Go outside, put the key in and turn, and Ashley @!#$in' didn't start again!! So I had to switch the temp licence plate from the Cav to the truck again and drive the truck to work.
I'm gonna pull out the battery tonite and take it to AutoZone for a load test. I can't imagine that it's shot already b/c I just got it summer of 04, but who knows. It seems for some reason that charging the battery up seems to help get rid of the TL problem - but only one time per charge. And charging it every morning isn't an option b/c I wake up like 10-15 mins before I have to leave for work.
I did a search on TheftLock in here, and the 5 results all had crap to do with the radio. So is the problem I'm having TheftLock or something else? My understanding is that when the wrong key is inserted (or what my car *thinks* is the wrong key - even tho I use it all the time), the whole car is dis-abled. She still has all factory electronics (PCM, BCM, Radio, Gauges, Ignition, etc) so I know that's not the problem.
Thanks for your help
i had a 98 malibu that had the same problem. for the malibu it had a passlock 2 or anti-theft therrent system installed when it rolled out of the factory. it was designed so that if someone tried to car-jack and steal your car using a different design key or hell even a flat-head screwdriver, the passlock would 'intelligently' engage and understand its under attack and take defensive measures. how? it cuts off fuel going into the combustion chamber(correct me if im wrong) and makes the car stall out. the passlock 2 will only disengage after about 15min. i hated my malibu cause if my key(s) were not exact in fitting with the igniton module the damn 'intelligent' anti-theft therrent would kick in immediately. there has been i think, a few GM recalls on these but unfortunately my 98 malibu was not included but after that year. i only got 1 post left for this month and i hope this helps you out as well as anyone else. i sure as hell hope the j-bodies' anti-theft isnt as bad as the malibus of the earlier models.
Yea, I think 2K+ Cav's have the PL 2 in them, but for my car [U[everything is dis-abled if you use the "wrong key" - radio, lights, power locks, none of those work during the 10-15 minutes. Thing is really gettin' me PO'd now. This week, like 1/2 the time that I get in the car, it won't start up!
I'm an idiot, lol. It's PL 1. Found
this site about by-passing the PassLock, not excatly what I need, but it could be of some use if I modify the design.
Based on this image from that site I posted ^
Would I be able to wire up switchs (one on/off, one momentary-push) to have push-button, keyless start? Obviously the on/off would be well hidden, and my plans include shaving the handles anyway.
From looking at the diagram, I think if I put the on/off to the "three wires" (pink, white & orange), and the push button to the "fat yellow wire" than I should be good to go, right? I would terminate the "three wires" at the on/off switch, and the "fat yellow" at the momentary, so none of the stock stuff would even be hooked up to the ignition. Do any of yall know if that would actually work? Or are there other wires, not in the diagram, that would kill the engine if I tried to do it that way? I won't try it until I hear for sure that it will work, b/c I don't want to F the car up more than it already is.
this is my last post for the month
but here goes:
when i had the 'bu' (malibu), the models from 97-98 and some on the later models like the 99s had the same problems on the PL-2. except the electricals worked, just not the ignition. what i heard and looked on other forums was ppl got around the stupid thing by getting a remote starter to bypass the PL-2. took some work but a majority of the ppl didnt have to deal with the PL-2 system kicking in when the key wasnt read right. if this problem comes frequently on the 2k+ j-bodies, and if alot of people goto the dealorship and bitch about it, i think GM could do something like a recall, just a thought, nothing solid but again my 2 cents. i have a 99 model but i dont believe i have the PL-1, wouldnt matter if i did cause im getting a remote starter anyways
Roughed In, from the idea you have you might want to research it further and ask around ppl on this forum as well as others. also try the
http://the12volt.com/ forum.
Sorry to make ya use up your last post lol. At least tomorrow is a new month, and new 100 limit haha. I remember those days
I'm up to only 337 posts so far this month lol, Premo = Sw33r.
According to that link I posted earlier, all 96+ J's are supposed to have PL1, so your 97 should have it too. Getting remote start is an expensive way to fix the problem. I was kinda wondering earlier about getting the PassLock override module tho, but I'm not so sure that it would fix the problem either. I'll check out T12V again and see if I can find any useful info - hadn't even thought of checking there for push-start lol.
I still don't get it. How does the car know that the wrong key is inserted? If you go to Walmart and have them make you a copy of your key for 99 cents, will the new key work?
Theoritically, no. Realisticly, I have no idea b/c I have both original keys.
The ignition cylinder passes electricity thru the key, and there needs to be a certain amount of resistance (within 5
in order for the PassLock to *tell* the car to start.
I'm trying to figure out whether I can truly bypass the PassLock computer by just putting a push-button for the starter (since it already has a relay), and an on/off for the rest (what would be "ON" or "RUN" for the key). I'm hoping someone will post up that "Yes, it will 100% proof-positive work" before I try it on my car tho, but that someone (or some people) needs to know from personal experience, not hear-say.
When I get home from work, I'll try the "learning" method of putting the key into ACC for 10 mins with the radio and all that off. I'm still goin' to get the battery checked out too b/c I know that the stock alt cannot keep up with my piddly little system - lights dim like crazy when I have the system up.
to by pass theftlock is simple
START THE CAR..
CUT THE WIRE TURN IT OFF..
its not bypassed
You know how many wires are in a car?? lol. I'm guessing it would be the black wire that has a resistor in the diagram above??
Passlock = ignition
theftlock = radio
If you can't start the car, you won't be able to bypass the passlock. if you cut that wire now, the car will NEVER start. (BTW, don't cut that wire, it's the worst possible way to bypass the passlock... renders your car VERY easy to steal (all you need is a screwdriver). Only a complete moron would do it that way.
You simply need to reprogram your Passlock. Here's how:
http://www.j-body.org/faq//98/
Thanks Lenko. I did something similar to that last night, took longer b/c I forgot which way to turn the key. Put it into ACC first for like 15 mins, nothing, so I put it in ON next for 15 mins, still nothing, took a wire and sparked the battery to make sure it had juice (I need to hook up my gauge lol), than a coupla minutes later the gauges/radio came on. Took like almost an hour total
Luckily it started right up this morning,
but I used my other key, not the one that's been having problems this week.
The 2K+ have a Passlock 2 system. It uses a variable resistor in the key slot to recognize the correct key. A $0.99 duplicate will work just fine so long as the last few teeth (at the end) are accurate.
The PL2 system senses those last few teeth, if they're wrong the key will still turn, but the fuel injectors will not work (car wont start).
The PL1 system was in early 90s cars (not our j-bodies) and had a visable resistor in the key. I know the Bonneville had them.
The PL3 system (I know Grand Prixs have it) have a magnet in the hood of the key (the black part you hold) that the key slot senses.
Bypassing any if these systems is not really a good idea. The directions on how to do so are in the FAQ, as Lenko pointed out.
Theftlock is in the radio only.
^ The site I linked yesterday only said that "95+ J-bodies have PassLock 1" so thanks for clarifying
I dunno what's up with my second key (the one that is having the problems) - the teeth look to be the same on both keys (I have them both in front of me).
Lenko, John Lenko wrote:Passlock = ignition
theftlock = radio
If you can't start the car, you won't be able to bypass the passlock. if you cut that wire now, the car will NEVER start. (BTW, don't cut that wire, it's the worst possible way to bypass the passlock... renders your car VERY easy to steal (all you need is a screwdriver). Only a complete moron would do it that way.
You simply need to reprogram your Passlock. Here's how: http://www.j-body.org/faq//98/
if someone wants ur car there gonna take it.. u can cut that wire 100 times and as long as u conect it it will always start it dont matter. They would need more then a screw driver to steal my car anyway so im not worried about it
^ Agreed. I've got roller jacks, I can lift any vehicle and roll it onto a flatbed if I wanted. Although an alarm would make it annoying.
OK, pre-1996 passlock used a resistor in the key. 1996+ passlock uses a resistor inside the key switch itself, and there is a little hall switch (magnetic switch) at the end of the keyway. Basically, when the lock cylinder is turned into the "ON" or "START" positions, a magnet in the cylinder activates the hall switch, and the computer checks the resistor value. So, if the ignition cylinder were removed or was not turned (ie. hotwiring the car), the hall switch does not connect and the resistor value is not read.
To defeat it... I have some very unscrupulous friends, and what they have told me is that PassLock and Chrysler's SentryKey can be defeated from under the hood. Turn the ignition on and jump 12v to the starter motor, or cross the starter relay. Supposedly the immob. systems only activate when the igntion switch is turned to ON, so manually cranking the car will start it and bypass the immobilizers.
Passlock does not disable the starter. Your "hot wiring" the starter will not work. Passlock disables the fuel injectors. Try hotwiring those.
Cutting the wire will work because you can make your car learn the new resistance (non-conductance) and it will expect that from then on.
All I can really tell ya is that the whole car (right down to the power locks) is dis-abled when the problem occurs. Nice thing about it tho - my CEL is finally off, after like at least 8 months of being on
It was not a major problem, which is why I didn't do anything to fix it yet.
I'm still not to sure on which wire to cut anyway. Is it the one that's labeled "Cut" in the diagram? I'm not too positive b/c that has the resistor (with-in 5
and all the relays.
