Ok so I believe I am right in saying this, and maybe other people will agree with me, but when dealing with subs/amps.
If you have set of speakers or whatever wired up for a 2 ohm load and say 500 watts RMS, you will get the best sound from an amp that is matched to support a 2 ohm load and does 500 watts RMS.
Saying that if you only have an amp capable of 1000watts you would be better off buying a sub that is 1000 watts vs a 2000 watt sub correct?
The whole argument came up when I said I wanted type Rs and they said why not type x's, and I believe that I will get better sound from my 1000 watt amp and 2 type rs than 2 type xs since I do not have enough power to push them.
http://www.aplusperformance.com
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I've always been told to always have more power than the speakers require ...
it's better to have too much then too little power. too little power can damage the speakers. so I've always aimed a little higher than the RMS of the speakers i will be using when shoping for amps. don't know if this info helps you out any.
omg
mattress you are TOTALLY wrong.
underpowering speakers does NOT hurt them at all!!!!
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ya... agreed. do u even know what root means square is? cause that extra power is just heat.
Really? My booklet that came with my component speakers said its fine to put like 80RMS watts to a spearker that says its like 60RMS watts.
Crutchfieldadvisor.com also says this: "However, it's always better to overpower than underpower your speakers. So, if your amp doesn't quite match your speakers' power ratings, err on the side of more amplifier power than speaker power ratings."
Maybe they just want you to blow your speakers so you can go back and buy some more.
on your components..you are talking musical power. which it is usually ok to over power then a bit....
but underpowering is FINE...what do you think happens when you turn your volume WAY down???
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I'm not even going to start on this one. Seems like whenever I try and correct someone, things get out of hand.
"Watches patiently from the sideline while wysiwyg handles it all."
Mike Roth
The system has arrived.
Cavi in KC wrote:I'm not even going to start on this one. Seems like whenever I try and correct someone, things get out of hand.
"Watches patiently from the sideline while wysiwyg handles it all."
haha...you know i dont' care!!
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As the all wise wysiwyg stated, underpowering is not a problem. What is a problem is when you underpower and crank the volume up to an extreme. That's when clipping occurs, and that ladies and gentlemen kills speakers
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im a @!#$ pussy ass liar! i lied to my girlfriend over and over, sat around with her friends naked and stayed home downloading porn...she loved me and i hurt her...i deserve to be alone and unhappy...no wonder every girl i try to love leaves me...i suck.
more power means less you have to turn up the volume to make it loud.which means you dont have to turn your gains up to much which equals less distortion cleaner sound.this is just what ive been told in the past.and as long as you have every thing crossed over properly youll be fine.
RICEFREECAV wrote:more power means less you have to turn up the volume to make it loud.which means you dont have to turn your gains up to much which equals less distortion cleaner sound.this is just what ive been told in the past.and as long as you have every thing crossed over properly youll be fine.
but you see..the gain control isn't a volume knob. you shouldn't just turn it up to make up for your lack of power.
the gain is there, to match the output signal of your headunit, to the input of your amp.
set it too high..and your amp will clip
set it too low, and you won't get full use of your ampiliers available CLEAN power.
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^^^ If you had a dollar for each time you said that you'd be a rich man wysiwyg
03_CF_Blues wrote:Ok so I believe I am right in saying this, and maybe other people will agree with me, but when dealing with subs/amps.
If you have set of speakers or whatever wired up for a 2 ohm load and say 500 watts RMS, you will get the best sound from an amp that is matched to support a 2 ohm load and does 500 watts RMS.
Saying that if you only have an amp capable of 1000watts you would be better off buying a sub that is 1000 watts vs a 2000 watt sub correct?
The whole argument came up when I said I wanted type Rs and they said why not type x's, and I believe that I will get better sound from my 1000 watt amp and 2 type rs than 2 type xs since I do not have enough power to push them.
You can buy type 's in daul coil 4ohm or daul 2's, same with Type X subs. Beleive it or not Type X's sound better. But do not expect some massive advantage spl wise vs Type R's. Realm of Excursion.com has a video of a 15' Type R hitting 150db. Under powering is fine in many cases, unless you severly underpower the subs for long periods of time.. say "years",then throw on a more powerful amp to give the subs their full potential after years of use severly underpowering them and you can" get a problem. I have never really seen anyone have one.. You have nothing to worry about*. So go nuts if the investment seems worth it to you.
My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"
Labotomi wrote:wysiwyg wrote:omg
mattress you are TOTALLY wrong.
underpowering speakers does NOT hurt them at all!!!!
+1
+2
Thanks
Shaun
www.ShowStopperTuning.com
Short Hand wrote:03_CF_Blues wrote:Ok so I believe I am right in saying this, and maybe other people will agree with me, but when dealing with subs/amps.
If you have set of speakers or whatever wired up for a 2 ohm load and say 500 watts RMS, you will get the best sound from an amp that is matched to support a 2 ohm load and does 500 watts RMS.
Saying that if you only have an amp capable of 1000watts you would be better off buying a sub that is 1000 watts vs a 2000 watt sub correct?
The whole argument came up when I said I wanted type Rs and they said why not type x's, and I believe that I will get better sound from my 1000 watt amp and 2 type rs than 2 type xs since I do not have enough power to push them.
Under powering is fine in many cases, unless you severly underpower the subs for long periods of time.. say "years",then throw on a more powerful amp to give the subs their full potential after years of use severly underpowering them and you can" get a problem. .
so your saying if i listen to my music at low volumes for long periods of time....then if i turn it up i'll have problems?
What kind of problems???
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OK.....I might not know brand names and specific outputs of certian speaker very well anymore (been awhile since I've had a system until reacently), but I do still know the geek side of it.
Overpowering can damage speakers, they can get to hot, or move the speaker to far and rip the voice coil.
Grossley underpowering speakers, can damage them too. If you go too low, you will not be able to completey fluctuate the speaker, and square wave cliping will occure wich can tear the speaker up.
No mattter where the volume is on your stereo, even if it's all the way down, you still have the same amount of power going to the speaker, it's the wavelength that changes. The height of the wavelength increases, wich translates into more volume. Thats why, the louder the volume, the farther the speaker moves. The reason underpowered speakers distort when you turn them up, is from not enough peak power, even if the rms is high enough.
Your best bet is to use an amp just below the rated capacity of the speaker. If your speaker says 900watts on it, it doesn't mean to run 900watts to it. It means that it can handle up to 900 watts. My subs are rated at 900watts each, and I'm running 800watts each to them, and they work great and you can't get them do distort. They'll take anything you through at them, and they stay cool.
Weebel wrote:Grossley underpowering speakers, can damage them too. If you go too low, you will not be able to completey fluctuate the speaker, and square wave cliping will occure wich can tear the speaker up.
It's not required to completely fluctuate a speaker. the movement is dependent upon the power applied and it moves accordingly. the more power that's applied the more cooling that's required and also the more movement that results (which provides the additional cooling)
Underpowering a speaker doesn't cause clipping....idiots setting their gains too high causes clipping.
Clipping is where the gain of an amp is set too high (most of the time in an effort to get more power out of an amp than it's capable of producing). The amp cannot put out a smooth sine wave signal so the peaks are flattened (or clipped). This effectively puts a DC signal (non changing) to the speakers which is what causes damage.
Weebel wrote:No mattter where the volume is on your stereo, even if it's all the way down, you still have the same amount of power going to the speaker, it's the wavelength that changes. The height of the wavelength increases, wich translates into more volume. Thats why, the louder the volume, the farther the speaker moves. The reason underpowered speakers distort when you turn them up, is from not enough peak power, even if the rms is high enough.
NO!!NO!!and @!#$ NO!! Wavelenth is dependent upon frequency...NOT POWER!
An amp isn't a constant power source. The output power varies according to the input power, that is what is referred to as gain (power in * gain + power out).
oops
Power in * gain = Power out
Thats what I said, wavlenght is dependant on frequency, not power, just in other words.
I know that an amp is'nt truely a constant power source, I was just trying to make it simple. I was bassically that the amp doesn't put out more power just because you turn the volume on the deck up. If it does at all, it's becuase it's needed for the givin frequency. Power doesn't make volume, the signal does,
Hey Zach, how fast where you going to lift that wheel
Are you saying that for a given frequency, if the volume is turned up then the amp doesn't put out more power? After reading your previous post, I'm confused. Are you saying that the amps output is the same with the volume turned all the way up as it is all the way down or are you saying that with a constant volume setting the only change is in frequency?
Weebel wrote:Power doesn't make volume, the signal does
What are you trying to say? Please splain.
Weebel wrote:I was bassically that the amp doesn't put out more power just because you turn the volume on the deck up
Yes it does. Turning up the volume increases the signal from the deck to the amp. if the signal from the source doubles, the output from the amp also doubles (if the amp is capable)
oh wow...lot of mis information coming out now!!!
I think i'm gonna sit back and watch for awhile
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wysiwyg wrote:oh wow...lot of mis information coming out now!!!
I think i'm gonna sit back and watch for awhile
Now you know how I feel.
Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....
Mike Roth
The system has arrived.
Cavi in KC wrote:wysiwyg wrote:oh wow...lot of mis information coming out now!!!
I think i'm gonna sit back and watch for awhile
Now you know how I feel.
Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....Must resist urge to post....
lmfao!!!
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Maybe I'm a little rusty...........I was prettly sure that rms stayed the same no matter what the volume was set at, but heck maybe I'm wrong. Either way, really underpowering a speaker isn't good for it.
Here's what I'm getting....
Power going to amp is dependent on load required to produce a certain frenquency.
Output from amp to speakers is determand first by the gain control then modulated to duplicate the wavelength determained by the input frequency.
The taller the wavelength, the more power is needed.
The higher the volume, the taller the wavelength.
The constant (RMS) power of the amp stays the same, but is modulated between the top and bottom of the wavelength. (peak at top)
More power = better quality.
Power needed to power speaker is determained by speaker design
The power fluctuation wich is at the same wavelengh as a sound wave is sent through the voice coil of the speaker. the electricity counteracts with the magnet, and moves the speaker creating a sound wave.
No matter how much power is being sent to the speaker, if it isn't fluctuated the speaker won't move.
Thats what I've always understood, correct as needed.
