I know when you remove your power steering you loop the lines on the rack, but I was wondering if you could do it on the pump as well. I have a leak in my lines and I just want to loop the pump so I don't have to keep filling it.. I'm not worried about power steering because this car is being built for the track.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

Dont see why u cant.


1991 Skyline GTR
1996 Sunfire

you can cause more harm then good doin that i think to do it properly you need to get a NO pwr steering rack probably a 1st gen would have it



JBO since July 30, 2001

Why not just remove the pump?


"A car just isn't a car without a little blood, sweat, and beers." -- Shadowfire

NOTa2_4 wrote:you can cause more harm then good doin that i think to do it properly you need to get a NO pwr steering rack probably a 1st gen would have it

x2


"Straight roads are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers"-Colin McRae

There is no manual rack that will fit a third gen.

Matt Linke wrote:Why not just remove the pump?

because I dont have a readily available replacement pully. I heard there was a way to re route the belt to eliminate the ac compressor.. any body know anything about that since I haven't found anything much on it.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

John Lenko wrote:There is no manual rack that will fit a third gen.

Agreed. There is a company in Ohio who makes a performance rack. It has been posted before. Looping the lines will be fine. Many have done it over the years.



PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

Strange. I have a friend who did it on a vw, he just left about a foot of line on each side and put as much fluid as he could get into the lines. Then just made a t to loop them together. The steering seems to be a bit "jerky" when driving, more so at lower speeds. He has since re added his ps pump. It just never seemed to quite work right.


"Straight roads are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers"-Colin McRae

Correction he made a U not a T


"Straight roads are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers"-Colin McRae

His j will be fine. Ask some of the dirt track people on here. I believe ALL of them run looped racks.





PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

He made a mistake in "filling" the rack with fluid. If he drains it, it should work fine. It is currently hydraulically interfering with steering movement.



Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft

World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com

I'm talking about looping the line on the pump, not the rack.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

I dunno, I would think it would end up overloading the pressure relief eventually and causing more harm than good. Why not gut the pump so it's nothing but bearings?





i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick

Doesn't it have to have fluid on the bearing to keep them from wearing out?


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:He made a mistake in "filling" the rack with fluid. If he drains it, it should work fine. It is currently hydraulically interfering with steering movement.

Interesting! Im going to let him know. I always though you were not sopose to run the steering rack dry


"Straight roads are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers"-Colin McRae

Im going to try this tomorrow, looping the output of the pump itself in the return... hopefully all is good and it doesn't build up some god like force and spray power steering fluid all over my engine compartment.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

Running a hydraulic pump from high to low side like your talking will cause no issues other than possible agitation of the fluid for the most part. Hydraulic fluid does good with pressure and heat but does terrible with foaming when sheared constantly.


"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:He made a mistake in "filling" the rack with fluid. If he drains it, it should work fine. It is currently hydraulically interfering with steering movement.

On any car that I've ever looped the two lines together, I made sure that the fluid stayed in the system with no problems.
The Ford Fairmont I had was run with this setup for over 100,000 miles with no issues and the Toyota daily driver I have now has been looped for 2.5 years with no issues and fluid filled.

So why won't this work the same with the Cavy setup?
I still have in mind to do this to the Cavy for more engine space and weight reduction since it's a purpose built car.
So you're saying to run it dry?

More information on this would be nice.



Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!

Joshua Dearman wrote:Running a hydraulic pump from high to low side like your talking will cause no issues other than possible agitation of the fluid for the most part. Hydraulic fluid does good with pressure and heat but does terrible with foaming when sheared constantly.

Thanks man, you were the only one to actaully answer the question.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

Misnblu wrote:

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:He made a mistake in "filling" the rack with fluid. If he drains it, it should work fine. It is currently hydraulically interfering with steering movement.

On any car that I've ever looped the two lines together, I made sure that the fluid stayed in the system with no problems.
The Ford Fairmont I had was run with this setup for over 100,000 miles with no issues and the Toyota daily driver I have now has been looped for 2.5 years with no issues and fluid filled.

So why won't this work the same with the Cavy setup?
I still have in mind to do this to the Cavy for more engine space and weight reduction since it's a purpose built car.
So you're saying to run it dry?

More information on this would be nice.

It won't work. I tried it a few months ago. I was told to leave fuild in it. When I did it wouldn't turn. So I forced it and blew the lines apart. Hooked it back up and could only turn so far. They weren't clamped that tight. So i said screw it and hooked it all back up. Now it is a 99 with a 2000 2.4 5 speed swap. When I put the motor in it. I drove it like 3 miles with no power steering fluid in the rack with the power steering pump off it. And it drove just fine.

I'm so amazed with this that not that many people have done the power steering bypass on their Cavies.
I find it hard to believe that the lines would just blow out if fluid is kept in the system and just looped through. I'm not denying your work or information Phoniex but it's a simple rack and pinion setup so how complex could it be?

Once I'm in the process of the engine/ tranny build, I'll take the car out (before it's torn down) and have a try at it without the power steering, with, and without the fluid just to answer some of my own questions.
Thanks all.



Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!

Its ight man. But it did. I made a block off plate for the power steering pump on the 2.4. Then made a adaptor to connect the stock lines together. Just to see how I liked it. Once reason why they blew apart. I then hooked them together after letting a little fluid out. Then I could only turn the wheel about a 1/2 turn. Then it was so hard to turn it wasn't funny. No lie. No matter if it was 20mph or 80mph. I have a straight 1 mile piece of road in front of my house. I have it tore apart now and could do it agian. Then make a vid.

Now if you leave it dry as in none period it is just fine. I am going to guess it is because you are having to push the fluid in and out the lines. Which causes it hard to steer. As in hard i mean i was tugging on the steering wheel enough i thought the columb would break.

As in my work I've built motors and did the 2.4 swap in it. So I am sure I knew what I was doing.. Not being a smartass just saying it is only two lines. Now I do know my pipe for the rack that goes under the passenger side behind where the jack pad is. It is a little bent closed. Doesn't affect the steering with the pump hooked up. But that may have been my problem. I could also see if the lines on our rack was bigger. It would be so bad i'm going to guess.

Give it a try and let me know how it works for you. If it works out fine then the only thing I could guess for my problem is that metal hard line.

I guess the steering racks are different on the other cars I've done this to.
On them, I just looped both lines together with the fluid still in them and never had a problem.
Both are rack and pinion type so I'd figure the Cavy's setup would be the same.

Once I get to that point, I'll post up my findings on this, and if it works, will go power steeringless permanently.
Thanks for the info.


Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!

Beats me man. I tried lol... It works fine for me though if I turn the wheels back and forth to get the fluid out. I drove the car a week like that when I did the 2.4 swap. Who knows.. I do know that metal pipe on the passenger side. How it loops around and what not is real small. So I can see that causing it hard to steer. With fluid in the rack also I could see it being harder to steer. Well not steer that quick since you have to push the fluid in and out. Where if it was air it would be easier. I was always told with out power steering fluid in it that will tear it up. So your guess is as good as mine.

On my 95 trans am not the na one but the procharged one. I have the rack setup like you were talking. It is fine with skinny's on the front. Wider just makes it harder to steer. One reason I did it like that one the sunfire. Wtf is different. Or that I possibly did wrong is a wild guess to me. I just said screw it and hooked it back up.

But yea let me know what you find out. I have my sunfire tore apart right now. But probably be back together this week. Had a fun time trying to figure out why my high beam indicator came on when you started the car. After tearing it clear apart I think it is the cluster. Also doing cruise on it. I might give it a shot agian though. Not sure what I could do different. Let me know though in a pm or something when you try it out.

Also I remeber seeing your setup awhile back. I did agx's, pro sports, front vert strut bar, aluminum control arms and addco front and rear sway bars. I see why you liked yours so much. I love mine in the twisty's in wv.