Original thread is here

Alright now the title makes sense. Anyway I've been really bust with a new job, so I haven't been able to get much done. Right now everything is out of the way in the grandam for the engine to be pulled, except for the wire harness. This is where I hit my first, "ARE YOU F%^&*N kidding me? moment". So far I've been able to figure everything out (taking things apart is the easy part I guess). Anyway, I was trying to leave the electrical crap hooked to the engine, and disconnecting everything from the car so I wouldn't have to figure out what sensors were what afterward. I got alot of the wires out of the way, but am confused about where they run through the firewall. Some of the wires I can get at from under the steering wheel. But some look like the only way is for me to get at them is to pull the whole dash apart. I know that I only need the engine part of the harness, and any bcm stuff I don't need. other goes There are three gromets, the harness branch going into the lowest one rand straight to the pcm. Then the branch going to the grommet just above that seems to split, one half joins the first branch,

So my questions : WHY DO CAR COMPANIES USE THOSE STUPID PLASTIC CLIPS TO HOLD EEEVVVVVVVERYTHING!
Do I really have to pull the whole dash, it looks like a pita...
Any usefull advice on gettig this engine out of the car finaly *wire harness is all thats stoping it, everything else is done, or will take under 20min would be appreciated

PS: I've been awake for 28hourse straight as of 10 min from nowt,,,,,maybe if I go work on the car after sleeping it wont be so bad, but going back with a plan is better

It's pretty hard to mix up the engine connectors, and the harness should have plugs that disconnect on the firewall, or pretty close to it.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

if you are worried about putting a sensor plug in the wrong spot then you shouldn't be tackling the swap. if your that worry about doin something wrong then you should re evaluat this. plus are you gonna wire the car with the harness attached???? when i do harnesses i remove all the loom trace every wire then re loom hard to do that with it attached to an engine.

BTW if you pullin the 3400 harness just cut the wires that lead into the car. the engine harness will go into the fuse box but any wires that come out of it that go in the car wont ge tused cut them you wont use the N body fuse box either



JBO since July 30, 2001

NOTa2_4 wrote:if you are worried about putting a sensor plug in the wrong spot then you shouldn't be tackling the swap. if your that worry about doin something wrong then you should re evaluat this. plus are you gonna wire the car with the harness attached???? when i do harnesses i remove all the loom trace every wire then re loom hard to do that with it attached to an engine.

BTW if you pullin the 3400 harness just cut the wires that lead into the car. the engine harness will go into the fuse box but any wires that come out of it that go in the car wont ge tused cut them you wont use the N body fuse box either

Its not that I was worried I wouldn't be able to find where each sensor goes, its more just that I figured I would save time leaving them connected. After some well needed sleep, I realize I didn't type that post very well... and that it wouldn't really save me any significant time anyway...

Basically what I really wanted to ask:
Would it be easiest for me to just disconnect all the sensors, pull the engine, and worry about the harness when I actually need to hook it up?

I'm confused about the second part you posted. Why won't any of those wires be used? Am I basically going to wire the grand am engine harness, to the cav fuse box, and then make a new harness from the fuse box that connects to both pcms (ga for engine, cav for gauges)? That sort of makes sense to me, except that there are alot more wires in that harness than there are fuses. I guess I could go open up the fuse box and look, but the car is 30min away. I would rather get the info I need than go there and realise I forgot something, and not get anything done. Thanks for the help, I feel bad asking all these questions, but its hard to find detailed info on what I am looking for.

Daniel Simoes wrote:
Would it be easiest for me to just disconnect all the sensors, pull the engine, and worry about the harness when I actually need to hook it up?

Yes.

good luck man. ur in for a treat, ur gonna need to take most of the harness apart any way and cut out and extend some wires any way if u r that unsure of ur knowledge already its gonna be tuff swap for u it sounds. good luck with ur swap.

CraiGM wrote:

Daniel Simoes wrote:
Would it be easiest for me to just disconnect all the sensors, pull the engine, and worry about the harness when I actually need to hook it up?

Yes.

The more I look at this, the more I realize how stupid my original question was (not to mention typos, and unfinished sentences...). It seems pretty obvious that it would be easier to access wires without an engine in the way. Atleast that way I can have almost everything done, before I start cutting wires. I just don't want to start cutting until I have everything figured out on paper, so I don't make a huge mess out of the wires.

any wires that come out of the grand ams interior and into the FUSE panel on the gran am CUT them you wont use them NO MATTER WHAT METHOD of wiring you choose. just don't cut anything comint out of the fuse panel that goes to the engine or PCM



JBO since July 30, 2001

Alright, thanks for the help. I can't really see all parts of the harness, but I will just pull the engine seperately, and then hopefully use what you told me to get the harness out... you also will have a pm very shortly...

i just pulled everything out of the car and took the whole harness and put it in the cav and im using aftermarket gauges..however this is my first time ever doing anything like this and im close to having my 3400 swapped cav running besides for some ignition and passlock issues that im trying to figure out..donor car is the way to go though..


[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2977/3861/32441930001_medium.jpg[IMG}

i bet you didn't just take the whole harness out and out it in the cav

i bet theres alot more to it then that. gotta watch what you say or you give people the wrong info and mess them up worse

whats are you tring to figure out for passlock its simple HPTUNERS no ifs ands or buts

i have a set of autometer gauges in my car that are comin out this winter for a new set of gauges defiantly alot easyier to wire that way then with the stock j body PCM there



JBO since July 30, 2001

i did take the Whole harness out yes..front to back



[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2977/3861/32441930001_medium.jpg[IMG}

WHY would you do that there are way easier ways so are you just gonna run grand am gauges then



JBO since July 30, 2001

i havent got the interior put back in yet ..not until i get it going . so the grand am gauges are plugged in. but i am using aftermarket gauges when the interior goes back in, when i get it going, gott figure out this spark problem first though


[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2977/3861/32441930001_medium.jpg[IMG}

wow good luck bud let us know what you find. my spiddy senses are saying theres a wiring problem you could have saved your self way more work by merging the 2 engine harness to make 1 if your running aftermarket gauges

PS are grand ams the cars that have to have the gauges in to start the car, there in now but if you take them out to run aftermarket you may not be able to drive it, i would look into that some GMs need the cluster in there to start



JBO since July 30, 2001

i guess i will have to look into it..if that is the case i still have the 97 cav harness . so i can still piggyback it if needed


[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2977/3861/32441930001_medium.jpg[IMG}

you serious didn't research this before you swaped it eh cause you have it all wrong

you cavailer can run aftermarket gauges without the PCM grand ams i have no idea if they need the cluster

what you should have done is left the wiring alone and taken the cav engine harness and the n body engine harns and make 1 using only the grand am PCM you don't need to piggy back it by switching to the cavalier harness the only reason people piggy back is to run 95-99 gauges but if your running aftermarket you don't need to piggy back it. this should have been know before you started you might have something messed up in the wiring. this is why i tell people for the V6s to research it and ask questions

not to sound like a dink but you are gonna have to go over everything in that car and make sure its right this is why i told you theres easyier was if you had asked someone we would have told you not to do it that way

Lenko had some issue with his car when he used the park ave wiring but with the info out there and the swaps all figured out you don't need to do that anymore thats the advantages of the years passing and people doin the work



JBO since July 30, 2001

i think im doing reasonably well as this is my first time ever even attepting something like this, and i have done tons of research on this site alone as well as 60degreev6 . everyones swap is different in some way though right?.anyway the only problem im having right now thats stopping me from gettin it going(atleast i think so) is i have no spark..ive been at it all day so far and still cant get anything..although when i turned it over a short while ago i did get a backfire from the exhaust so something must have happened.. i do have another question though..if theres a faulty 7x ckp sensor or a bad wire...the one thats wired to the icm..will the plugs spark or no?..i will deal with everything else once i get the car to fire up. and if i have to put in a custom dash to fit the grand am gauge cluster then i will make a mold and do it that way..i just wanna get it running first. if i can figure out how to post up some pics ik will do that soon. oh and i suppose i really wasnt thinkin right when i said piggyback. i knew that i would have to do that to run the cav gauges. all that is on my mind lately is why i cant get no damn spark. oh and one more thing i only get power to the icm every now and again..not everytime.. any reason for this. i cant see why it should work out for me. everything is the same now as it was in the grand am..minus the power windows and stuff..oh and no airbags or heater controls or anything yet


[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2977/3861/32441930001_medium.jpg[IMG}

figured out my spark problem, the car is firing now and almost catches but wont


[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2977/3861/32441930001_medium.jpg[IMG}

care to tell us what you did to get a spark?????



JBO since July 30, 2001

bad wire coming from the 7x ckp sensor the the icm..i put 2 new wires from plug to plug and boom..just like magic she made a big beautiful spark...lol..but it still wont start..just attempts to


[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2977/3861/32441930001_medium.jpg[IMG}

NOTa2_4 wrote:Lenko had some issue with his car when he used the park ave wiring but with the info out there and the swaps all figured out you don't need to do that anymore thats the advantages of the years passing and people doin the work

I didn't really have any unanticipated issues... I re-wired the entire car so it thinks it's still a Park Ave, but now it's in a Cavalier convertible shell. I used the Park Ave gauges, PCM, BCM, etc... the Cavalier body wiring is spliced into that. I removed all the things that I didn't need.. like the rear adjustable suspension wiring, memory seat module, etc.

Besides... I have the 3800, so it's more of a challenge to mount the thing in the car, compared to the 3400 which has some nice options for mounts now

I love seeing how popular this swap is becoming... And how many will attempt it with no knowledge of it.


3400 SWAP DONE. 187WHP 212TQ (14.2 @100MPH NA) 240WHP 310TQ (N2O)

Nitrous Nate wrote:I love seeing how popular this swap is becoming... And how many will attempt it with no knowledge of it.

I read up on it before I even purchased a cavalier, but had plans to.. read up on it for about 2 years before I actaully did it, so I felt confident.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

there is only one way to get knowledge..do it and get it done..i've tried to ask questions on here and all that happens is most people tell me i'm doing this wrong or that wrong. i've been reading on here for quite a while..ive got two 80 page notebooks filled with notes and little diagrams about this swap(from reading on here and from figuring out wiring diagrams)..my car is now running..and running pretty good at that...all is left is the interior.. i learned quite a bit about this swap by doing it..not by reading every day on here for 2 years..


[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2977/3861/32441930001_medium.jpg[IMG}