Spent some time in the garage today. I feel like I got a lot accomplished, but I think I will let the pictures speak for themselves.







Lower mount


Engine is from a 94 grand am, tranny is a 2.2 isuzu. Everything aside from the wiring should be done tomorrow. Once it is up and running I plan on getting the large port intake manifolds/ 56 mm tb. Headers and full 2.5" exhaust in the future most likely. Let me know what you think.

Looks good so far. You wont regret it. I read there was an issue with height or something using that upper mount. did you have to address that or Is there in fact a specific year bracket that has to be used.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Might wanna check the level of the engine. It is probably sitting a little low on the pass side. I had to trim the bracket to the engine 3/4 of an inch to raise the engine up.

A lot of work for only a 5hp increase over a 2.4. Hence why I HIGHLY reccomend the large port heads/manifolds (i might have a set here in a while, I got me a set of 3500 heads/intakes to put on my 3400). But, of course I always like to see a swap. Good stuff.

Maybe just in the mean time after you get it all wired and such, some elbow grease and some engine degreaser get it cleaned up nice.

As of now the engine does sit a little low on the passenger side. I am going to make a spacer for under the mount to bring it up. I was just happy to get it in and bolted up with the prothanes. I went with the small port because I got the complete grand am for $200. When Im done with it the will be more than a 5 hp difference. I really just want to get the thing running and drive it for the first time. I bought the car with the quad 4 already blown, so it has never moved under its own power since I have owned it.

looks nice man. i hope youve got plans for it because, as it was said above, i would hate to see all of that work for only a few extra horses over a stock cav motor.

btw....was that a bolt in (no needing to fab mounts) because the grand am stuff swaps over, or was i told wrong?

either way keep it up man

Honestly it wasnt that hard to put in and either way it needed a motor. I definately wasnt going to put any of that quad 4 junk back in it. The top mount bolts up to stock cavy mount, but sits a little low.

The lower mount from the ga needed to be modified but it wasnt bad at all. We did it in about half an hour by cutting, moving the pieces, and rewelding.

I spent some more time on it today with the little stuff. I hooked up all the vaccum lines, radiator hoses, and ga throttle cable. I will probably see what I can get figured out with the exhaust tomorrow.

The next and last big thing after that is WIRING. Not looking forward to it but it has to be done. Any opinions on this for my setup from the swap veterans?

Car is 95 Z24 5 speed and the donor is a 94 grand am se. I wish I new if the gand am ecu would for sure run my cluster. Any help is appreciated.

I'm not sure what to say for your swap. Honestly I'm not sure what kind of issues will come of using a 94 ECM. In my case I use the stock Cav wire harness, and the ECU to run the gauge cluster and such. Then I run Megasquirt-II for the engine. Which gives me tuning abilities, and cost less than HPTuners. I don't really know what to advice you on as far as the wiring becuase I think we all pretty much run something a little different. At best I would say there's really no right or wrong way to do it.

Granted I talked about there only being a 5hp difference. The torque difference will be quite a bit. So from light to light you'll probably be pretty destructive.

Also, I'd make sure you did a real good job with the welds on that lower mount. I've not had a problem thus far, but some of the guys with 2nd gen 3400 swaps say that the V6 has a tendency to tear up engine mounts.

You're going to run into one hurdle with the ECM: it's ODB 1.5, for which there is no current way to tune them, and I'm not sure you'll be able to delete the tranny codes, either.

Other than that, it's comming along nicely. Good choice on the lower mount. That's the route I went. I like it bettern than the ones most have used because there is more bolted to the block than the oil pan. It's a simple mod, so it makes sense.

SHOoff wrote:A lot of work for only a 5hp increase over a 2.4...

It's still a drastic torque difference, though.

Ability to tune isnt a huge deal right now. I just want to get it running so its driveable for summer. This car has power everything, sunroof, and A/C which is a far cry from my DD 96 base. Plus I love the color on it, I think its called medium cloisionne blue.

While that may be true, if the ECM expects an automatic transmission, and you do not have one it will be a PITA just because it's auto tranny is gone. That's where ability to tune would come in important.

I am going to get a pinout diagram and go from there. I am hoping that I can just give the computer an input that the car is in neutral when the clutch is pushed and in gear when let off. ( I did this with a honda that I swapped from auto to 5 speed). I can hanle wiring, I am just having trouble getting the diagrams. Checked autozone website but they dont have them for the grand am and I dont have access to alldata or mitchell anymore.

Something I did today just messing around, I think I will keep it that way too.



Yes the car does need a bath, gotta get it rolling and out of the garage first.

You know, I was just trying to hunt down the exact diagram, because before I pulled the wiring, I wanted to try mine with a 95 GA flash, but I need to compare the pinout to the F-body pinout before I do, to make sure I have the right things hooked up. They are the exact same ECM, but the F-body has some things that the GA doesn't have (like left and right bank O2 sensors). I haven't been able to find it. I went to the dealer and asked a guy I know at the parts counter. He couldn't do it, and the service guys were too busy to do a favor, so I'm still hunting. If you do score a pinout, I'd appreciate if you could scan it. I'll do the same if I find one first.

One thing to consider, though, is that not having the tranny isn't as simple as having the ECM know if the tranny is in gear or not. It's going to expect certain ratios of MPH/RPM based on what gear it thinks the tranny is in. Having the wrong info will at the very least make it go into safe mode, which usually means retarted timing, and possibly fuel changes, because when things like that don't jive with that the ECM expects, it does everything it can to avoid damage. Your CEL will most definitely be on constantly, which may be a problem when getting an inspection sticker.

Well if the f body flash would work then I wouldnt have to worry about tranny codes. If the pinouts are the same and the only difference would be a second o2 sensor I think I could get by that. I am going to try the library on my next day off to see if they might have a manual with the diagrams I need.

u disapoint me. should of out a 2.6 stroker in it lol. but seriously it looks good. im glad its coming along for you

I would say best guess when really in need, though I've never personally gone this route, but when in need with some of this real technical @!#$ I always say "ask the Fiero guys" cuz it seems like just about everything has been swapped into a Fiero. So, they might know ways around the whole electronic transmission stuff.

RedCavalac wrote:Well if the f body flash would work then I wouldnt have to worry about tranny codes. If the pinouts are the same and the only difference would be a second o2 sensor I think I could get by that. I am going to try the library on my next day off to see if they might have a manual with the diagrams I need.

There are good reasons I'm pulling mine and changing the harness and ECM. The F-body flash works (the engine runs), but it doesn't run proper. Remember, it's tuned for a 3.4, with different head and intake configurations. Also, the F-body engine is iron head, and the timing is advanced more than the aluminum head engines. While you will fix the tranny code problem, you will create other issues with the engine itself. Although is seems to run fairly well on the surface, mine runs quite rich, and the timing could be causing some damage.

Since you haven't started the wiring yet, I would highly recommend hunting down an ECM and harness from a 96-98 GA. You will be able to both delete the tranny codes, and tune it. Since you plan on swapping the intake to the newer style, this would be helpful.

I decided that I am going to go ahead and chop into the 94 harness and try to run it on that ecu. I am going to keep an eye out for the 97-98 ecu and harness, but I need to get it fired up and see what problems I run into with the 94 stuff. I dont want to spend the money if I can get it to work with what I have. Plus Dxray did the same swap and is driving it with minimal complaints. Also emissions testing isnt done here so no inspection. Hopefully the next post or two will be news of a running swap.

Quote:

I definately wasnt going to put any of that quad 4 junk back in it.

...right....cus it would have absolutly SUCKED to actually put an engine in that made more power than the one you just put in and actually bolted up without any wiring changes at all ....right?

Quote:

You're going to run into one hurdle with the ECM: it's ODB 1.5, for which there is no current way to tune them,

and yes..there is a way to tune it..very simple and much cheaper than hpt acutally

scott (section8cav) wrote:

Quote:

You're going to run into one hurdle with the ECM: it's ODB 1.5, for which there is no current way to tune them,

and yes..there is a way to tune it..very simple and much cheaper than hpt acutally

Please enlighten us. This has been much discussed (about this exact ECM) on 60degreeV6.com, and no answer has been found.

Quote:

http://s80.photobucket.com/albums/j195/ghost_l2yder/?action=view¤t=ostrich1.jpg

*sigh....img owns me

oh look ! a preview button !! lol

That's a chip emulator for ODB 1 units. AFAIK, it does not work on this ECM. I will now, of course, do some serious digging, because I haven't yet pulled my wiring out, and if this will work, I will be a very happy camper. I just find it very hard to believe that no one on 60DegreeV6.com knows about that working on the 94-95 3100 ECMs.