A little background on what Im doing, I dont have too much time to explain but Ill try to get to the point. Heres a picture/ concept designed by my roommate
Originally going to use the 3800scII motor out of a 99 GTP, but it turns out the price went up on the wrecked car, so we said screw it.
The idea for now is:
Power by an ecotec motor (undecided which one... doesnt matter too much right now) and a 5spd transmission (better than the only option of an auto with the 3800scII[yes I know about the 5sp getrag swap aswell])
The suspension as you can tell is formula 1 style double A-Arm suspension. And instead of using rockers for the strut along the front like most formula/kart cars use, we might just attach the strut to a "lower control arm" piece attached to the lower a arm and attach the upper part to the frame for the front and for the rear attach the lower part of the strut to the "upper control arm" attached to the upper a-arm and to a raised portion of the frame beside the motor. And we plan on making the stock strut/spring/coilover assembly work with this (since it weighs 2000lbs less than anything else) we plan to have it weigh in at under 850lbs, but that probably wont happen.
If you havent figured out by now it will be a RR car. And the idea is to use a portion of the stock front hubs of whatever car we use in the rear to attach the drive shafts to. And another set of front hubs to go back on the front to be used with a non power assisted rack and pinion.
It will basically be like an atom, but as project oriented as we are, wede rather build one, and possibly make it better/faster/better handling.
One thing I dont like about the atom is the tires, they are far too skinny from what I can tell. The tires used on this will be atleast 205's front and possibly 225 rear.
Theres about 6 of us, that are able to work on this project and fund it, which should fall under 8000 canadian (im in saskatchewan) and from what I can tell with SGI so far, it can be road legal if it passes a certain certification. And theres my summer car.
That pretty much summerizes everything to a point that you should get it.
So I need suggestions on what car to use that is ecotec equipped. And what suspension you figure would be best. I dont know if I wanna go all out on a full GT/z24 suspension with the stiffer springs, because the car weighs little as it is. But maybe the factory base ones wont be good enough.
Aftermarket support can come later, we just want to build it and get it running first. Then comes the turbo and upgraded suspension/brakes later.
Oh, and as for brakes, it would be nice if the donor had 4 wheel discs, because as we all know drums suck and I will not have them on my car. So if its a sunfire/cav with drums, then we'll work out some sort of fabrication (probably buying 2 more front hubs in general with the rotor/caliper and fabricating the rest.
Looks pretty cool! Make sure that you find out all the rules from SGI regarding making it street legal. Sask is pretty liberal compared to Alta and Manitoba, but it's best to do your research ahead of time.
On a side note - where in Saskatchewan do you live? I grew up on a farm outside Tisdale ("northeast" Sask) and did my u-grad at the U of S.
The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.
Cool! I'll definitely have to stop by and check it out once it's finished.
The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.
Hoping for summer given that we get a donor car Ive got to do more research on the ions. Someone share their knowledge please
You may have some luck at finding a donor at one of the police auctions that are held regularly (weekly?) near the north end of S'toon, or even PBR auctions. (you'll probably get a donor car MUCH cheaper at a police auction). The last time I went (5 yrs ago) you could buy 3-4 year old Crown Vic ex-police cars with <100K on it and with nothing obviously wrong with them for $500-1000. You can always check out the bargain finder (www.buysell.com) or the classifieds of the auto trader for wrecked J-bodies.
I'm not sure if you'll find any cav/SF donor cars with a working ecotec for cheap, but there's always a chance. There are millions of these things on the road, so you should be able to find a cheap donor locally.
Good luck!
The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.
Well "cheap" isnt neccessarily what Im looking for, liek I said, the project budjet is between 8 and 10 000, including the cost of the donor, the mig welder im picking up beginning of feb and all frame pieces
With the amount of power you'll be putting into that car, what have you done with respect to safety of driver/passenger? Looks like there's no rollcage or anything in the event of a project accident.
If you're looking for the engine itself, sellers on eBay often times have engines listed. Have you tried looking around at your local scrapyard? You can also try this website:
www.car-part.com . You may be able to find what you're looking for.
Blown.
The "cage" we will use isnt exactly a cage, and its not in the cad design because we simply havent designed it yet.
Simple breakdown of what we are doing for safety (besides brakes)
Used bucket racing seats. 4 point harness connected to a raised portion of the frame behind seats. No airbags though.
Seats will be welded in place with the only way to adjust being the slider bar and anything else the seat has (back support, lumbar stuff)
For a roll cage, it probably wont be designed in any cad as it would have to be designed once the frame and seats are done.
You will need a helmet when riding in this thing
The roll "bar/cage" will be designed kind of like this:
We will have the back piece behind the seats be a raised portion at a high enough angle that we can use a small raised piece in the front. If the car were to be flipped directly upside down, you will have the piece on the front and the back to grind up the ground with. It will be designed large enough that it will aid in protection if something were to happen.
I havent checked the local yard yet, but its SGI and its usually pretty pricey. The are the only yard (I believe in saskatchewan) that has new (<5yrs old) cars.
My apologies - by "cheap" I was trying to say "less than dealership prices".
Yeah, SGI is outrageously expensive. If memory serves me, you're right that SGI only carries newer vehicles, but other yards may have some, and cavaliers are as common as pennies so you're chances are decent.
You should try calling Affiliated auto wrecking (in northern stoon). I have no idea if they carry anything new enough to have an eco, but they had a huge collection of cars and I had pretty good luck getting good deals on used parts for my firebird and mustangs back when I was still living in saskatoon. You should look into the other yards as well, because there's always a chance that they bought newer write-offs from SGI or from salvage auctions (which you could also look into). Places like PBR sometimes auction off write-offs, so it might not hurt to call them up and ask.
If I think of anything else I'll let you know.
The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.
For sure, thanks for the help
HOLY Ariel Atom ripoff!!!!
Thumbs down. Do something original if you're going to design a car from the bottom up.
I will NEVER change my sig. HTML 4 EVA!!
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Ariel atom = $60000
This project = <$10000
This project > ariel atom
Ive always had plans to build a go kart, something for track use only, but then I saw the atom and ofcourse this project is inspired by it but its not a total rip off, ariel atom used super charged b16 where as Im using an ecotec. The b16 figures do not impress me. If I remember right its got about 200ftlb torque with 300hp. Which is a ridiculous amount of power dont get me wrong. What else would you suggest that would be small and fast that isnt a kart?
I betcha this thing on a turbo will beat the piss out of the atom. Its all about torque.
Theres alot of things about the atom I dont like either, those wheel covers (which ian needs to change on our design) have to go, the wheels are ugly and the tires are too small. Its not all about originality, you guys arent driving j bodys to be original, your modifying j's to be original (well... even then, alot of people are modding them) but either way you look at it, its gonna be a boatload of fun to drive, itll be insanely fast and handle like a champ. And be road legal at the same time. This will be my daily summer car.
For me, yes Id like to own an atom without having to build it. But building one is half the fun, and why not customize it while Im at it? Build it how I want it built and be significantly cheaper in the end. Plus the atom looks alot like a super 7 from the front, and I dont like it. Im going for more of a kart look on the frame.
Theres a slightly upgraded concept thats been redesigned a little and has the suspension built on it.
To each his own I guess, for as much as someone would spend on a used J you could build your own atom. I dunno, to me its worth it.
We are also looking at some talon tsi's. Pretty sure theyve got a 4g63 motor in some of them (if not all) and they are good for a decent amount of power. Those are still obd1 correct? From what my step dad tells me they are chippable for a good amount of power (electronicly controlled wastegate?) and you can get an addition 70hp. But I dont know a whole lot about dsms but that would be a pretty hefty powerplant aswell.
Any suggestions for anything non j-related?
That will be incredible. Post it on Hackaday.com when you finish it.
fd fk wrote:We are also looking at some talon tsi's. Pretty sure theyve got a 4g63 motor in some of them (if not all) and they are good for a decent amount of power. Those are still obd1 correct? From what my step dad tells me they are chippable for a good amount of power (electronicly controlled wastegate?) and you can get an addition 70hp. But I dont know a whole lot about dsms but that would be a pretty hefty powerplant aswell.
Any suggestions for anything non j-related?
Hmm, did you say DSM? i have a good bit of knowledge on the 4g63 platform. Ok 1st gens are obd1 they are sorta chipable but if you want the ultimate in tuneability you can get dsm link and you can tune everything in the ecu pretty much. If not just run a piggyback (SAFC) and you will be fine.
As for the wastegate, just get a boost guage and a MBC (Manual boost controller) and up the boost to whatever your supporting mods can handle.
If you need more in depth on what parts to get 300hp+ out of a 4g63 engine heres a good guide to doing it.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/1gturbo/stage1power.php
Hope it all goes well.
And for more power check out this one
http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/1gturbo/stage2power.php
Thanks for the info shadow, the 4g63's seem to be solid motors from what I hear. I have more experience on ecotecs than a 63.
Any chance you know of any places selling a front clip? Pretty much all we'd need.
Its funny how a wrecked 3rd gen j body is about as much as a wrecked 90's dsm. Ah how we love resale value. (not hatin, I drove one)
hell i'd use the rear end off a fiero easy to find everythings there the right hub an all if your lucky find a 5 spd one only ones i have for sale are a lil outta the price range for a donor car tho... but the nice thing about the fiero will be the transmissions cables are already setup backwards
for a mr style car.. so save some time just a suggestion plus that motor mockup has to be changed above! that pulley is just too big an the 3.8 plugs dont go in thru the valve covers lol j/k
