Just so everyone knows, i check the FAQ, and i couldnt quite find the answer to my question. My question is; would it be a bad idea to use coilovers on the AGX'S. I have H&R 1.7 drop now. But i want to go lower without having to redo my suspenion completely. Any advice? Thanks in advance!
I believe someone else said agx's don't work well with some coilovers but i'm not posotive!
Using coil-overs will void the AGX warranty. They are only set for a 1.5" drop with drop springs only (no coils) --
KYB Warranty Info
you can use them but they'll blow. if you blow them, dont try and send them back and play it off that you didnt take it past 1.5" they have ways of tellin'. if you want coils, you should look into yellows
You'll blow them unless you get custom wound coilovers with 350 (IIRC) or less spring rates.
C.T.S wrote:You'll blow them unless you get custom wound coilovers with 350 (IIRC) or less spring rates.
ok considering most drop springs have rates lower than like 200... that statement sounds stupid
the reason why coilovers work is because of the really high spring rates, which in turn means that you need a higher performance strut to handle the high spring rates... AKA NOT KYB AGX'S
do it right or don't do it at all
where could you get custom wound coil-overs with 350 spring rates?
ground control or what?
i didnt hit enough conez
Erik Bauer wrote:where could you get custom wound coil-overs with 350 spring rates?
ground control or what?
stop being a cheap bastard and buy koni's!
god damn
i couldn't substantiate the extra $250 for a product that will do the same thing. guaranteed that the koni yellows are the best out but are they worth the 40% more in cost and i guarantee that they wont give me the same % back in performance. i don't have ultra ninja skills in auto x and i wont feel the the major difference. anyways Zach had good luck with agx as well as nova racer.
just my 2cents
i didnt hit enough conez
Erik Bauer wrote:where could you get custom wound coil-overs with 350 spring rates?
ground control or what?
ground controls you can get spring rates as low as around 200 lb/in and maybe lower. they do customs spring setups by weight and by length.
350 would still be pushing it on AGX if longevity is your goal...
i don't wont to lower that much. this is my day driver and it snows up here in buffalo. i dragged my a$$ around 2 years ago in a fiero and it is not fun. i just wonted higher linier spring rates to reduce the body roll and better turning response. i am thinking 350 front 325 rear.
i didnt hit enough conez
In that case, if you are getting AGX and not wanting to drop that much, get the Eibach Pro-Kit. Not coils but they do the trick.
If you get coils, get Koni's
but what are the spring rates? i cant find that info on the web or in the forum anywhere. if you know i would appreciate.
i didnt hit enough conez
From Eibach's FAQ:
What is the spring rate of the Pro-Kit?
Only simple linear springs have a spring rate. A sophisticated progressive Eibach Pro-Kit spring has a load/deflection characteristic. The special design parameters are only accessable through Eibach Desk-Tech Database to Eibach's exclusive partners.
In other words, don't know and not available to the general public.
Erik Bauer wrote:i don't wont to lower that much. this is my day driver and it snows up here in buffalo. i dragged my a$$ around 2 years ago in a fiero and it is not fun. i just wonted higher linier spring rates to reduce the body roll and better turning response. i am thinking 350 front 325 rear.
might wanna do some reading on suspension...
you dont always need stiffer springs to reduce body roll, thats why the agx struts are adjustable...
you can adjust those things via strut dampening, as well as strut braces which help steering response...
thanks kardain for the info. one more Q?
what is the weight distribution on the cavalier if i decide on going to HR springs or ground control springs and order custom springs.
the reason is so i can calculate the the sag on the spring with the amount of axle weight and with the spring rate
rate=lb/in
so
(axle weight /spring rate X 2) - initial spring hight = final spring hight
so for me to figure out the initial spring hight of the spring i need to know the final hight i wont (which i do) and the spring rate and the weight distribution.
initial spring hight (in.) = ((axle weight (Lb.))/(spring rate (Lb./in.) X2))+ final spring hight (in.)
if this calculation makes sense pleas tell me.
i didnt hit enough conez
i am working on a home made strut brace that me and my brother are designing and going to weld together with tubular steal and 1/4 in. steal plates which to mount to the strut towers. i can make a stronger better one than the stuff i can buy. any ways this would allow me to make one so i don't have to move the cpu (i forgot the name of it at this time) on the ecotec 2004 cavalier. later i might post the diagrams if it works out
ps i am going sts next season in auto x so i plan on doing as much to the suspension as i can on my budget.
i didnt hit enough conez
It has been said numerous times that AGX were designed for Spring of a drop of 1.5"
From KYB Website:
A careful inspection of the AGX® unit will help you reveal abuses that can void the KYB product warranty. Here are some examples of product damage on AGX® shocks caused by misuse and/or modification:
-KYB AGX® unit with springseat reversed to accommodate a shorter spring.
-Small diameter coil spring markings on the standard springseat reveal use of a small diameter coilover spring.
-KYB unit with springseat reversed to accommodate a shorter spring.
-Markings on the standard springseat show it was used to support a coilover kit.
-Bayonet style lower mount (e.g. Honda and Mitsubishi front end) with "push through" markings due to excessive bottoming-out.
-Standard springseat is ground away to provide clearance for a coilover kit threaded collar.
-Small diameter coil spring markings on the standard spring seat show use of a small diameter coilover spring.
-Rubber deposits on the striker plate (black color) indicate excessive bottoming and seal damage.
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
yes that would be the case on the coil-overs but if i went to making my own (ordering ground control or h&r comp springs) springs with a specific final spring hight (when the car is at rest the spring is compressed and no shorter than 1.5" from stock), spring inside diameter (making the spring the same diameter as the stock ones), and the spring rate that i wont (which i stated above), will that void the warranty on the kyb agx. my thinking would be no for i didn't drop more than 1.5" and i didn't use any coil-over sleeve(i just got lowering springs made to my specifications.)
does this sound about right.
i didnt hit enough conez
Erik wrote:yes that would be the case on the coil-overs but if i went to making my own (ordering ground control or h&r comp springs) springs with a specific final spring hight (when the car is at rest the spring is compressed and no shorter than 1.5" from stock), spring inside diameter (making the spring the same diameter as the stock ones), and the spring rate that i wont (which i stated above), will that void the warranty on the kyb agx. my thinking would be no for i didn't drop more than 1.5" and i didn't use any coil-over sleeve(i just got lowering springs made to my specifications.)
does this sound about right.
Ground Controls are still a sleeve coil over. The springs are smaller in diameter that stock. As far as i know most springs you get for coil overs are smaller than stock in diameter.
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-
#30 to register on
JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
Erik wrote:yes that would be the case on the coil-overs but if i went to making my own (ordering ground control or h&r comp springs) springs with a specific final spring hight (when the car is at rest the spring is compressed and no shorter than 1.5" from stock), spring inside diameter (making the spring the same diameter as the stock ones), and the spring rate that i wont (which i stated above), will that void the warranty on the kyb agx. my thinking would be no for i didn't drop more than 1.5" and i didn't use any coil-over sleeve(i just got lowering springs made to my specifications.)
does this sound about right.
This sounds perfectly fine, but doesn't really have anything to do with this thread.
Bear in mind that if you go with much higher spring rates than most lowering springs generally have, then you may still kill the AGX dampers. Even if you don't kill them, they may not have the level of damping that you need.
For the money you're going to spend on having custom springs made, just pony up a bit extra and get yourself some Konis.
