how is the vibrant strut tower bar? i havent heard much about it.
also, what is the best strut tower bar for under like 100$. i put a lot of money into the other aspects of my suspension, i dont want the BEST bar out there, just somthing to keep the front struts together.
what do you guys think?
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CaliforniaCavalier wrote:how is the vibrant strut tower bar? i havent heard much about it.
also, what is the best strut tower bar for under like 100$. i put a lot of money into the other aspects of my suspension, i dont want the BEST bar out there, just somthing to keep the front struts together.
what do you guys think?
all do the same
pick one that looks pretty and go for it.
vibrant is sold as by gravanatuning, so check them out.
no difference in function
I think the GM bar is the best bar for the money. Bolt it down to the firewall and it is far superior to any other strut bar.
I was wondering about that... if you put a GM brace in won't you have to relocate the ECU on the 03's?
where can you get a GM strut bar?
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you can get a GM bar from a junkyard off of a 3rd gen convertable
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
you cant buy them anywhere online?
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probaly from GM themselves. but they will charge way too much for it. just go to a salvageyard and look for one. i bought a GM bar for $3 at a salvage yard. but every yard is different
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
just for reference, mounting a bar to a thin piece a sheet metal makes it no more superior than any other bar.
its there to keep the bar from chattering against the firewall according to gm.
plus, you arent gonna get nor feel any difference realistically.
They are only $45-50 from GM, which is not way too much lol
strut brace/ no cruise bracket: 22604347
strut brace/ with cruise bracket: 22642387
GMPartsDirect
Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:just for reference, mounting a bar to a thin piece a sheet metal makes it no more superior than any other bar.
Yes it does.
Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:
its there to keep the bar from chattering against the firewall according to gm.
No it isn't.
Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:
plus, you arent gonna get nor feel any difference realistically.
You might. But even if you don't, that doesn't mean it's not making a difference.
Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:just for reference, mounting a bar to a thin piece a sheet metal makes it no more superior than any other bar.
its there to keep the bar from chattering against the firewall according to gm.
plus, you arent gonna get nor feel any difference realistically.
Art, I'm with Weasel on this one. I noticed a big difference when I bolted mine down in both places. The firewall isn't just some flimsy piece of sheet metal, its at least .125 thick. Have you bolted a gm brace down to your firewall?
Zach wrote:Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:just for reference, mounting a bar to a thin piece a sheet metal makes it no more superior than any other bar.
its there to keep the bar from chattering against the firewall according to gm.
plus, you arent gonna get nor feel any difference realistically.
Art, I'm with Weasel on this one. I noticed a big difference when I bolted mine down in both places. The firewall isn't just some flimsy piece of sheet metal, its at least .125 thick. Have you bolted a gm brace down to your firewall?
yes i have.
for starters the stock bolt is about 1/3 the size of the hole on the strut brace, so i did as weasle did and used a larger bolt to bolt it to the firewall and also used a backing plate to try and eliminate all flex of the wall.
the stock bolt that potrudes out is way too small to even begin resisting any forces. the sheet metal is 2 ply which equals a total of .047 inches. i have the bolt with me and will post a close up pic of it in the following post.
.047 inches equals, 3/64 of an inch. no where near .125 as you estimated.
also i have used 5 different bars so far all in autoX events. there really is no difference. this is pretty much like an intake situation....
freedom design
rsm
gm
ractive to make sure it fit cause people said it didnt.
and vibrant, the one with the holes called type v.
same exact effects. nothing different. hold a sec for the pics.
heres the pics....
<img src="http://www.angelfire.com/md/TOWSONFTBLPLYR/bolt1.jpg">
<img src="http://www.angelfire.com/md/TOWSONFTBLPLYR/bolt2.jpg">
<img src="http://www.angelfire.com/md/TOWSONFTBLPLYR/bolt3.jpg">
<img src="http://www.angelfire.com/md/TOWSONFTBLPLYR/bolt4.jpg">
<img src="http://www.angelfire.com/md/TOWSONFTBLPLYR/bolt5.jpg">
keep in mind i pulled this bolt from the firewall cause the firewall flexed enough for the metal to weaken.
.047 inches which equals 3/64 of an inch.....
http://cutlerscove.com/kwg/metric-inch-fraction-conversion.htm (for reference) is the measurement of the firewall thickness (not like the olderschool cars) and i showed a closeup of the measurement on the calipers itself.
the bolt is what came on the car in stock form.
I recognize the bolt, but it doesn't come near my strut brace.
mine was right in the hole. once i removed that, i used a huge bolt.
2 things to also think about.....
our cars are not like other cars where the strut towers are stranded with only one side of them attached to the unibody. 2 sides are already welded to the side of the car, and its also welded to the firewall itself... if you look at the strut towers from an above view, with any strut brace, the area consisting of the firewall, strut towers, sides of the engine bay, and any strut brace, already boxes in that area.
also, with all the aftermarket strut braces out there, especially the latest, the DC sports. for all these performance companies making aftermarket, and even for the rear, and even companies like mantapart, cav connection, rsm, etc....
if it were really effective/superior, there would be a solid working single and 3 piece brace out there. one with a mounting point equidistant from each tower so the third/fourth mounting points apply the same force on the middle mounting points.
as an example, look at an integra or rx7 3/4 point brace. solid plate mounting point in the middle of the car. if the towers do actually move, ideally you want the braces 3rd/4th mounting point to be equidistant in the center of the two flexing points.
Tr wrote:They are only $45-50 from GM, which is not way too much lol
strut brace/ no cruise bracket: 22604347
strut brace/ with cruise bracket: 22642387
GMPartsDirect
i was told more than that. oh well
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
why doesnt the GMparts direct website show pics of the bar you are getting for 45$?
i searched for the part # and it came up with a "brace", but how will i know if that fits my car for sure? i dont see any specs...
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Aftermarket companies don't make them bolt to the firewall because it's simply easier for them not to and they can use universal components. All they have to make is the plates to go on top of the strut towers and they're all set.
You suggest that the bolt is there to stop "chatter" against the firewall. Frankly, the bar isn't close enough to the firewall (but for the little bracket you put the bolt through) to make that an issue.
If the hole in my firewall ever starts to oval out because it's not strong enough to prevent lateral movement, then I will concede this issue. Until then, I stand firm in that there is a measurable difference when bolting the bar to the firewall.
Wild Weasel wrote:Aftermarket companies don't make them bolt to the firewall because it's simply easier for them not to and they can use universal components. All they have to make is the plates to go on top of the strut towers and they're all set.
incorrect, i;ve contacted DC sports on getting a custom made one that mounted...their reply :not really a need nor advantage.
GRD when it was around, as well as mantapart...same reply. local chassis shop i go to in rosedale md, close to my machine shop. guy looked at me and pointed out the same thing i just did. its already WELDED to two sides. he would make me one (a sale is a sale)but its not accomplishing anything else over the freedom design. and thats from measurements made and differnt angles of the car lifted and on corner scales.
if the towers moved as much as you all suggest, the firewall would bow and the windsheild would crack.... also gm wouldnt have made the firewall as thin to mount such an alleged integral structural piece. with the way some speak of this, some act as if the firewall is doing ALLLLLL the work.
Quote:
You suggest that the bolt is there to stop "chatter" against the firewall. Frankly, the bar isn't close enough to the firewall (but for the little bracket you put the bolt through) to make that an issue.
i as well as gm suggested that. on the cars that the brace is MADE for, the brace is mounted flush against the firewall, usually convertibles. hence they NEED the extra bracing, being they dont have the top braces in the roof as most of us do. but with the bar being so close, its more prone to chattering. as most know in stock form gm tried to keep everything quiet. and the bar is close enough on many cars. on mine it is or was, rodimus prime's, when i installed his in whitemarsh, and a few other locals. once you install it, with the nut which is a 10mm/washer combo nut from gm it all tightens down flush.
but if it isnt close on your car as you say, then basically you are mounting a pivot point to 3/64 inch (or .047 thick sheet metal) if there were forces, that thin of sheet metal isnt gonna do anything but flex.
or from you tightening the bolt down, since its not close, all you would be doing there is intentionally flexing the firewall towards your brace.
Quote:
If the hole in my firewall ever starts to oval out because it's not strong enough to prevent lateral movement, then I will concede this issue. Until then, I stand firm in that there is a measurable difference when bolting the bar to the firewall.
thats fine, entitled to your opinion, but sheet metal that thin will not oval out really. its so thin it flexes... not really favorable for ovaling out to occur, the bolt has to be strong enough to move back and forth in a solid non flexing area. 1/4 inch thick aluminum is an example of something that can oval out. mainly because its rigid, but still soft metal. the bolts used on it will prob be stronger without doubt. sheet metal however if not really rigid and way more malleable. most people cant bend 1/4 inch thick piece of aluminum 1 inch long nearly as easy as you could bend sheet metal of .047 thickness thats 1 inch long. hence the reason for the ridges on the firewall, to help increase rigidity of sheet metal.
if the area flexes with the motion, which thin sheet metal does, its like muscles on a body, less prone to injury. anything that flexes, is less likely to have damage occur.
but since the strut towers are already welded to two sides of the unibody (fender side and the firewall) , and the plates and bar of any strut brace itself eliminate any lateral motion, its already boxed in the entire area.
you learn quite a bit when you start hanging out at chassis shops.
thats where i got the swaybar extension plates made for the addco. i was already contemplating making my own strut brace and reinforcing the firewall, but after being on corner scales, and having the car measured on inclines that raise one side of the car, left and right, and then having stuff measured... there wasnt a need.
with all the suspension work i;ve put into my car, i have never minded paying far extra to get the most effective and efficient stuff, if it actually made a difference i wouldnt hesitate to purchase it.
especially with all the weight thats slingin around in my car during race day
