sounds very trunk consuming.....i dont have much room in my trunk for anything....lol
like the idea though.
i want one...........how does it mount to the floor, just drill holes or weld?
Nice work, can't wait to see it all finished.
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Interesting.
That design does remove the usefulness of lowering the rear bench.
And the support for the rear most of the trunk will not be there. ( that extra bar you said would need to be welded)
Hope it turns out ok, not sure if Im' digging the inside/outside plate concept though.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
Something like what you see below would be more effective in completely boxing in the trunk section.
This is something that I've toyed with about a year ago but since I didn't have a welder to do this setup, went with what I now have for my trunk.
My only concern is that without proper trunk bracing along the frame rails on either side of the spare tire well, your x-brace will really be nothing more than a heavy duty strut bar.
The trunk bar ties together the rear section of the frame rails which go up to but stop just short of the subframe. Boxing in the trunk with a trunk bar solidifies the rear most end of the frame rails, adding rigidity to the strut towers while keeping twist down to a minimum, especially if you're running a 4 point brace setup to complete the rear section.
A floor bar further reinforces this concept with a v-brace then connecting the subframe directly to the frame rails going to the back of the car.
But most don't want to go that hardcore so I doubt that anyone would ever want that kind of setup.
I really like your idea as it would go great with further bracing with bars going to the tail section of the trunk along with a trunk bar.
But doing that would compromise alot of trunk useage. So how bad you'd want to do this and lose trunk space is a matter of the person.
I'm subscribed to the thread now and I'm thankful that OEM is out there to try different things with our J-bodies and market them for others to buy. This is really nice to see.
Now if you could only fab up some fender braces, I'd be your first purchaser.
I'd also be willing to fund the project if necessary and we can talk about this via PM if you'd like.
Any auto crosser is aware of the merits of the fender brace and how it affects the cars handling.
/thread hijack
Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO! 
i like where you're going with the chassis braces you're coming up with.
i'd be interested in fender braces too...
OEM wrote:Send me a PM about the FB's
You have a PM sir.
Spence, me too and I'm not trying to get off of the subject that we have here on this thread.
Hopefully some negotiations will bring on the fender braces.
/offtopic
Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!
i like very much that it works with your solid rear strut bar
im subscribed
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, February 24, 2009 4:29 PM
^^
And I'll fund more if needed for that extra support frame Misnblu is talking about OEM.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
not a fan of the way it looks one bit. i realize looks arent everything but i cant wrap my head around it.
maybe if the two bars were tied into each other so it looks like one isnt off-set over the other?
Needing 2.3 oil pump stuff? PM me...
Looking at the design it looks like it could be VERY effective at keeping the struts from twisting into or away from each other yes. The questions is....is that the only way the rear strut towers flex. I dont know that answer and I'm not sure anybody else can actually answer that question with facts only/data. One suggestion would be to cut and cope one of the bars and run a true X rather than one bar in front of the other. More just looks than anything else really. I dont see a second plate helping much on the bottom side unless the sheet metal just lacks all thickness to be useful. Then yes, you gotta make it up with contact area. The pics that Mis dropped show a design that is optimal IF the strut towers flex to the front and rear of the car, which I would imagine if present would only be during braking really but even then most of the forces would be isolated in the axle and translated to the frame through the axle bushings right there in one shot. Actually thinking while typing there is no way to send forward/rear forces up to the towers from the rear suspension flex since the struts mount up with a pinion bolt mount on the bottom. Meaning any stiffening of the towers themselves eliminating twist in the forward and rear directions is not going to be translated through the struts at all since the struts can simply pivot on the bottom single bolt mounting on the axle.
Its not like the front where the strut is a stiff mounting loaded member of the front suspension.
I really think the X member in a single plane will address most if not all of the preventable flex in the strut towers really, any flex in the other direction wont matter since the strut cant translate the added stiffness to the axle effectively.
What are your guys' thoughts? I feel like I'm thinking out load and I could be pretty far off....but not when it's 1:00am, lol.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:17 PM
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
I think you're theories about the strut flex are valid.
But what we want to get in on is bracing the whole trunk area.
Kind of like a roll cage.
The cage (a good one) boxes up practically the whole inside of the car.
Fills up all the dead space.
So in this case,
We wanted an entire assembly that boxes in the trunk.
Filling or bracing the dead trunk space.
And this is why we're all interested in a design like Misnblu's
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
^That maybe true for some but I think the target market here for the masses would be a strut tower flex reduction. Ok, yeah, for that a simple straight bar might be the best fastest easiest way to achieve just that so......yeah. I see your point. Your point is there is no point unless its a cage-like design which would stiffen the subframe rather than directly trying to reduce flex of the suspension parts themselves. All while still achieving some reduction in suspension flex at the same time more as a side effect of the bracing and not as the number 1 reason for the bracing to begin with. -Or did I still miss something?
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
Very interesting
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Quote:
^That maybe true for some but I think the target market here for the masses would be a strut tower flex reduction. Ok, yeah, for that a simple straight bar might be the best fastest easiest way to achieve just that so......yeah. I see your point. Your point is there is no point unless its a cage-like design which would stiffen the subframe rather than directly trying to reduce flex of the suspension parts themselves. All while still achieving some reduction in suspension flex at the same time more as a side effect of the bracing and not as the number 1 reason for the bracing to begin with. -Or did I still miss something?
Yup,
The strut bar does the job in reducing the strut flexing.
But, that sill leaves the space in the rest of the trunk.
Kind of like a long rectangular box of glasses.
You can take out the middle divisions and still have a stiff box on the ends if you leave dividers inside on the ends.
But if you take out the middle sections of dividers, there is potential for flex.
Basically, the idea is to fill in that space to brace or box in all that extra empty space.
Misblu's bar across tire well the back end of the trunk kinda puts that extra brace in the 'middle'.
So, when the other to braces bolt toit, it creates that 'box' effect.
And that's what I'm willing to try for.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
good good I see.
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
for the 1% of j-bodies serious enough to even need this brace i think it would be a good product to have but i mean most are never going to need it. the other 99% are going to be worried about trunk space.
the other thing to look at is why all these braces and not a roll cage? a roll cage is the absolute best thing you can do to a car for structure rigidity. however... very heavy.
Needing 2.3 oil pump stuff? PM me...
^Yeah, I'm with you on that one. I think the braces are kinda a cheap way out to the ultimate goal and overall effectiveness probably lacks some. If I were in need of such weight adding bracing I think I'd lean more towards a interior gutting roll-cage setup. But to each his own. I'm sure for those who dont want the un-stripped interior look, lets be honest, something like a trunk cross brace is as good as your going to get really.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:24 AM
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
Joshua Dearman wrote:^Yeah, I'm with you on that one. I think the braces are kinda a cheap way out to the ultimate goal and overall effectiveness probably lacks some. If I were in need of such weight adding bracing I think I'd lean more towards a interior gutting roll-cage setup. But to each his own. I'm sure for those who dont want the un-stripped interior look, lets be honest, something like a trunk cross brace is as good as your going to get really.
An X-brace between the frame rails under the car would be much better. I doubt there is much twist beyond the rear shock towers.
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^Agreed
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
