ok, so, i know that our stock shocks suck, but what is it about them that make em suck? what about aftermarket ones? what makes em good? i don't wanna hear"better quality stuff" or anything like that...i'm looking to learn exactly what is in a shock, and how design differences can change how well they work. i like knowing everything there is to know before i make a decision...i'm pretty much set on the tein ss's, but i want to know why they're better.

thanks, guys!

strut*

lol, yea, yea, yea....ok, strut.

the rears are technically shocks

basically, our stock struts were designed to the lowest possible cost while still being able to function. in doing so, alot of corners are cut in material and workmanship. so when you're buying new, aftermarket (kyb, koni, tein, etc...) struts from a company that specializes and wants to stand behind their products, they're going to put more r&d into the parts, as well as make them from higher quality materials.



JBO Stickers! Get yours today!

even some aftermarket who cover only the stock replacements, that are not meant for lowered applications, can make some damn nice struts for the stock ride.

It's not that the stock dampers totally suck -- they might not last as long as we think they ought to -- it's how they're designed.

They are designed to control the stock spring rate. Which is quite soft, but it allows for a cushy ride to the average (non-performance oriented) consumer. Mine were still working fine at 75000 miles on my first j-body. They were just about to be worn out, but they were still working. I don't know what the typical lifetime of a typical OEM damper is, but that doesn't seem too bad really.

They don't last at all when you fit them with lower/stiffer springs because at that point you are exceeding their design limitations. Abuse anything and it will fail prematurely. Use the thing within its design limitations and it will last reasonably well.

What I (as a performance enthusiast) don't like about our struts is that they are as weakly valved as they are. The aftermarket provides for our hunger by giving us parts that are arguably over-engineered, but they last longer in harsher use and conditions.

So, what makes OEM struts suck, is that they don't hold up to the abuse that we want them to, and they don't really perform well in a "performance" environment.


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Sleeper style, they don't see it coming that way.

ah, ok. well, my struts are original at 146500 miles, and still don't have any problems...but my mounts are shot. how about those? what makes a mount better? is it just thickness of the mount?

thanks, btw. really helps me to understand it.

Dave De Stefano wrote:thanks, btw. really helps me to understand it.

No problem.

Mounts: If you want "better" you might look at the ones being posted by the guy who runs Overkill Engineering Motorsports (OEM for short, but everything I've called OEM to this point still means "Original Equipment Manufacturer", aka: stock) at http://www.overkillengineeringmotorsports.com/

They look pretty beefy.

Although, at 146k+ miles, I'm not surprised that they're worn out. Your struts probably are too for that matter, as in you'd notice an improvement in your car's road manners even if you just went with OEM replacements. I know I did when I replaced the struts on my Fiero with plane Jane OEM style KYB's. I doubt the ones I had were original, but they were old.

When I built my last J, I used factory mounts (nobody had nice aftermarket mounts yet) and they worked fine for couple of years I had it. Factory-style mounts are designed to help with a comfortable, quiet ride (hence the rubber inside of 'em). They will eventually fail with regular use (and are normally replaced when you do struts anyway, since you have to remove them when you do struts, and it's no extra effort to put in a few more new parts). And, like factory struts, factory-style mounts will fail more quickly when abused.

If you haven't figured it out by now, factory-equipped parts perform to factory specs, which are designed to be able to sell the most cars to the most people. The typical purchaser of a small economy car primarily wants a "nice" looking vehicle that gets decent gas mileage and doesn't beat them up when riding down the road. So us enthusiasts get to go to the aftermarket to provide for our better handling/stiffer riding fun.


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Sleeper style, they don't see it coming that way.

hmmm...i bet you're right about if i replaced my struts...every little bump, or even if there are enough little pebbles in the road, and it really makes the ride unpleasant. this summer i'm gonna put in the tein ss struts/coilovers...do you think anything bad will happen if i wait that long to replace my suspension parts, considering my mounts already knock?

you can possibly wear out other suspension items if your struts are blown.

lol, well that isn't good news...for this summer, i was gonna put in new control arms(looking into the modified 99 alero arms...but not sure yet how much tghe shop wants to mod em), rksport bushings, moog ball joints, and the ss coilover kit...anything else i should be concerned about?

again, thanks a lot, guys...noone ever told me any of this stuff before(cuz noone i know knows any of this stuff about cars...just how to take it to a mechanic, lol, and when i did that, he said my struts are just starting to wear in, and they're fine for quite a while...yeah...sure...and when it knocks, i guess thats just the car telling me it likes the song i'm playin????)

As long as you can tolerate the ride, I doubt you're going to screw anything up any more by waiting until summer. Nothing that you're not going to replace anyway.

When you have your suspension that far apart, it is very strongly advised that you replace your strut mounts while you're at it. It's a minor increase in cost (unless you get the overkill ones...which I want badly... )

Control arms don't really wear out unless they rust away. The Aluminums from the N-body are cool, but I don't know if I would personally fool with 'em

Heck, I could help you install your suspension stuff, how close you to Columbus, IN?

I would set aside an entire day, but a suspension setup should be able to be installed in an afternoon assuming you have all the parts.


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Sleeper style, they don't see it coming that way.

squisher00z24 wrote:As long as you can tolerate the ride, I doubt you're going to screw anything up any more by waiting until summer. Nothing that you're not going to replace anyway.

When you have your suspension that far apart, it is very strongly advised that you replace your strut mounts while you're at it. It's a minor increase in cost (unless you get the overkill ones...which I want badly... )

Control arms don't really wear out unless they rust away. The Aluminums from the N-body are cool, but I don't know if I would personally fool with 'em

Heck, I could help you install your suspension stuff, how close you to Columbus, IN?

I would set aside an entire day, but a suspension setup should be able to be installed in an afternoon assuming you have all the parts.

yea but alot of bouncing around will wear out the cv joints

well, i live in northeast pa, so i'm a bit away from you...once i get the parts, i wouldn't mind taking a day drip to see ya...i love drivin...but its def gotta wait till the summer. yea, i'm going with the tein ss coilovers cuz of the pillowball mounts(and a lot more, lol). hmmmm...so, how much should i worry about my cv joints?

oh, also, another ? for you guys for when i do my suspension this summer...i have the eibach sway bars that i have to put in, but my car didn't come with a front sway bar, so i ordered the front brackets, and they didn't come with bolts, or anything, so what size do i need for this?(and nuts, etc...not really sure what i need)