Prior to anyone laying into me about using the search feature on the site, I ALREADY HAVE! Just thought I'd put that .02 in there.
I have an issue with my 1998 Pontiac Sunfire 2.4L Coupe. Both the brake light and the abs light come on intermittently. If I park the car with the e-brake on, the lights never turn off when I start the car the next time. However, if the e-brake is off (with car in gear) both lights temporarily go off. However, once you start rolling in the car there are (2) audible clicks and both lights snap right back on.
According to the searches of these forums, many individuals advised to clean and/or replace the front abs wheel sensors. I did go to the part store (paid $$$ for both the left and right wheel sensors) and installed both on the car last night. While I was under the car, I also verified that the wiring was intact (loomed, not broken, frayed, etc). However, once the car was back off the lift, started, and rolling along, the exact same issue still persists....
HELP!!! This is my wife's daily beater car, and she is hesistant to drive it (regardless of my reassurances that it is only the ABS system that is malfunctioning...the brake system works just fine.)
Outside of a complete removal of the ABS system, what else can I do to fix this issue??? I would like to try and troubleshoot your recommendations tomorrow or Sunday (1/17-1/18) if replies are made in time. You can also email me direct at metalball@gmail.com
Check teh rear sensors. Open the loom on the harness and inspect the wire. Every pivot point in teh suspension is a possible place of damage to the wires. Just because the harness looks ok or the wire doesnt look damaged does not mean that it is fine.
Rear sensors in the drum brakes?? Didn't know that ABS was connected that far...
You have 4 wheel ABS. Doesnt really do any good to allow the fronts to remain spinning while the rears are locked. The sensor is in the rear hub, and the wire harness is routed through the interior body harness to the body pass through under the rear seat. Most problems are a result of the front harness on a J/N car though.
Where is the rear hub directly located? Are you referring to the interior of the drum brake? I am assuming if they are 4wheel that there is a sensor on each side...
If I check both rear sensors and that is not the problem, what else could cause this issue?
If you take the time to look at the back of the hub you will see the electrical connection. As I said before, your problem probably lies in the front harnesses.
Why don't you start with getting the car scanned and see what the faults are? Or even pay a shop for the diag and then replace what it needs on your own... Both are better options then just throwing random parts at it and hoping it fixes it.
Already put my Snapon OBDII scanner on it....didn't find anything related to ABS or brakes. Went to a shop, and they advised the same thing (to clean or replace the wheel sensors...)
It could be a number of things, like the ABS pump. You say you didn't get anything brake related on your scanner. What did you get? A bad ABS pump throws a rather generic error. Bad sensors give more specific errors. Bad front sensors will commonly trigger the Traction Control light as that system shares the sensors. Also, the ABS system does self-diagnostics and resets itself after error free "drive cycles", which could be why the lights come on intermittantly. I find ABS systems desirable and advocate their repair rather than removal just to get the lights to go out. I know repairs can be expensive, but I agree with Darkstars that you could at least pay for a professional diag to remove the doubt, then fix it on your own.
Problem is that my scanner didn't show anything brake related at all. It only showed the error for the *missing* 02 sensor from the gutted cat on the car. It is possible that I need to put it on a different scanner.
I opted for a fresh replacement of the front wheel sensors instead of cleaning them....(from the previous post)
ODBII became standard in 96 because they wanted to make sure ANYBODY could have access to faults relating to emissions systems. A generic OBDII scanner will not read ABS system, its not related to emissions, it will only read the engine.
What type of scanner is required to test the ABS/Brake system?? Also where does it connect in the car?
Most accurate scanner for a GM vehicle is going to be a Tech II and it connects through the diagnostic port. You may be able to find a generic ABS scanner but it may not be 100% correct for a GM vehicle.
you can get ABS scanners, I saw one at sears even. But an OBDII reader sure isnt going to pick them up.
I would take it to a shop, and have them scan it. They will tell you what it needs, then replace that instead of throwing bearings at it.
Naw let him throw cash at it hand over fist, it's funny to watch...when the FIRST thing they should have done was find a proper place to have it checked.
14.330 @ 96.37mph
Lol...didn't want to spend the $80 just to diagnose. However, I did just that...spent the $80 yesterday. And, YES, I did return the front wheel sensors for a FULL refund!!!
In any case, this is an update to my previous post, in hopes that someone else will need this in the future.
I had the car scanned and found the following code: C1246 Rear Channel Will Not Move. Shop's diagnosis is that the main ABS Motor Pack (which is under the brake master cylinder on the driver's side) is defective and needs to be replaced in order for the ABS system to work. Estimated used part price from a scrap yard is $250. Estimated new part price from dealership is over $500. Needless to say, I am highly considering removing the ABS system all together.
For reference purposes only, here are the part numbers and cost of the front wheel sensors:
Driver's front wheel sensor
P/N: BRK LS121117
Net Price: $72.37
Retail Price: $120.62
Passenger's front wheel sensor
P/N: BRK LS121118
Net Price: $69.78
Retail Price: $116.30
Also FYI, if you run into the situation where you need to replace one of the rear wheel ABS sensors (located in the hub), DO NOT purchase just the sensor alone! Net price on just the sensor is around $250. However, you can purchase the ENTIRE hub assembly, including the rear ABS sensor, for just over $80 net cost...go figure!
Thanks to all who contributed their commends in this thread (including BlownBlackZ....
). Hope the next person has better luck than I did on this diagnosis...
unlike the OP, my lights only come on after I have gotten up to 5mph. If I do not move they do not come on. We tried to scan it with my dads snap on scanner (not some cheap one, its the full access type) but it could not connect to the ABS system. I am going to bring it to Autozone and see if they can scan it, but thoughts on what may be the issue? Brakes work fine no noises vibrations or issues. I did not see any obvious wiring issues when I traced the lines.
look ppl, here's a small education, please remember it. the abs light going on only means there is an electrical fault in the abs. the abs and the red brake light means there is a hydrolic problem. how much fluid is in the resevior? how much meat on the pads/shoes? a leak will make the fluid level go down, and a lot of brake wear will make the level go down since more fluid is required to push the pads into the rotors.
the red brake light going on with the e-brake down means its a dangerous faluire(potentially) which is why its red. the abs is amber because if it detects a fault, the systel reverts back to non abs brakes, which is still very safe and plenty of cars still don't have it, so its accepted(you'll even pass an inspection with just the abs light on!)
just a bit of info for ya!
g/l!
dave,
i understand these things, the symptoms I mentioned were after checking fluid levels, good pads and shoes, proper pedal function, no pulling no noises and the like. the brake light does not come on at start up, only once you start moving (with or without brakes)
I checked the basics, which is why i searched for 20 mins before adding to this post. I agree the people above needed to do more dilligence, I have done mine. Thoughts on what the problem may be?
nate van vliet wrote:Lol...didn't want to spend the $80 just to diagnose. However, I did just that...spent the $80 yesterday. And, YES, I did return the front wheel sensors for a FULL refund!!!
In any case, this is an update to my previous post, in hopes that someone else will need this in the future.
I had the car scanned and found the following code: C1246 Rear Channel Will Not Move. Shop's diagnosis is that the main ABS Motor Pack (which is under the brake master cylinder on the driver's side) is defective and needs to be replaced in order for the ABS system to work. Estimated used part price from a scrap yard is $250. Estimated new part price from dealership is over $500. Needless to say, I am highly considering removing the ABS system all together.
For reference purposes only, here are the part numbers and cost of the front wheel sensors:
Driver's front wheel sensor
P/N: BRK LS121117
Net Price: $72.37
Retail Price: $120.62
Passenger's front wheel sensor
P/N: BRK LS121118
Net Price: $69.78
Retail Price: $116.30
Also FYI, if you run into the situation where you need to replace one of the rear wheel ABS sensors (located in the hub), DO NOT purchase just the sensor alone! Net price on just the sensor is around $250. However, you can purchase the ENTIRE hub assembly, including the rear ABS sensor, for just over $80 net cost...go figure!
Thanks to all who contributed their commends in this thread (including BlownBlackZ.... ). Hope the next person has better luck than I did on this diagnosis...
What scrap yard are you talking about? is it through the shop? a shop once wanted 500 dollars for a junkyard door for parts for my power windows. so I went and got my own for 45 dollars. I just checked around here and the pick and pull sells abs modules for 50 dollars.
well if you mean the red brake light that is not from your abs not working. that is from something hydrolic. do you know that the level sensor is good? where do the clicks come from(front or back of car) loud like mechanical or is it electrical sounding?
Zs Z wrote:nate van vliet wrote:Lol...didn't want to spend the $80 just to diagnose. However, I did just that...spent the $80 yesterday. And, YES, I did return the front wheel sensors for a FULL refund!!!
In any case, this is an update to my previous post, in hopes that someone else will need this in the future.
I had the car scanned and found the following code: C1246 Rear Channel Will Not Move. Shop's diagnosis is that the main ABS Motor Pack (which is under the brake master cylinder on the driver's side) is defective and needs to be replaced in order for the ABS system to work. Estimated used part price from a scrap yard is $250. Estimated new part price from dealership is over $500. Needless to say, I am highly considering removing the ABS system all together.
For reference purposes only, here are the part numbers and cost of the front wheel sensors:
Driver's front wheel sensor
P/N: BRK LS121117
Net Price: $72.37
Retail Price: $120.62
Passenger's front wheel sensor
P/N: BRK LS121118
Net Price: $69.78
Retail Price: $116.30
Also FYI, if you run into the situation where you need to replace one of the rear wheel ABS sensors (located in the hub), DO NOT purchase just the sensor alone! Net price on just the sensor is around $250. However, you can purchase the ENTIRE hub assembly, including the rear ABS sensor, for just over $80 net cost...go figure!
Thanks to all who contributed their commends in this thread (including BlownBlackZ.... ). Hope the next person has better luck than I did on this diagnosis...
What scrap yard are you talking about? is it through the shop? a shop once wanted 500 dollars for a junkyard door for parts for my power windows. so I went and got my own for 45 dollars. I just checked around here and the pick and pull sells abs modules for 50 dollars.
the post you just quoted is over a year and a half old.
or 8 months? lol
i have this problem aswell, as soon as i go from reverse to drive i get 2 yellow lights and my traction light goes
on, any ideas for the traction light?
