ok so this is to all with poly bushings in their control arms... do they even make much of a difference? or is it somthing if the car is only used in fun daily driving its not worth getting?
The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
It helps with wheel hop off the line.. So yeah, id say its worth it.. Mine arent even installed yet.. Gotta get on that.
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
Ive had mine installed for a while now..no problems with them..they helped my launch for sure...they arnt the easiest thing to install though so be prepared for that...there used to be a video on here that had a step by step if you can find it
yea they are a pita to install...but they def help with wheel hop
2000 Camaro V6.
| SLP Loudmouth | CAI Intake | HID's |
they aren't a miracle cure for wheel hop but they help..... and how can any $30 mod not be worth it because its a daily driver
they didnt help with wheel hop on my g/fs cav
others i know they have helped , i had them in my auto cav , they help with handling , and i never have had any ill effects from them
also this isnt the SUSPENSION FOURM , lol
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poly bushings in control arms make much of a difference
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Josh F
Today 12:24 AM
ok so this is to all with poly bushings in their control arms... do they even make much of a difference? or is it
well as far as putting them in i wouldnt do it and it wouldnt be my money as its not for my car... but i was looking at these from Simmons Motor Sports..
Simmons Motorsports
but im sure if it would make more creeking and groaning noices?
The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
Owen claimed they beefed up the CA's, however I would really like to know how they did so. The bushings are like $35 from Karo, and installing them is not hard if you have access to a press. IMO, those are not worth $250, but the bushings are worth $35.
edited to add: you can get Moog balljoints for under $60 too... or Napa premium's with lifetime warranty. So you still come out under $100 and maybe 3 hours worth of work.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, February 12, 2007 4:19 PM
I just spoke with Fred from their company today and he informed me that:
They seem weld the control arms, replace all 3 bushings, and paint them...
Not a bad deal considering the time needed to do all of the above, and that not everyone has to tools to install the bushings, let alone weld.
Whether you do it yourself or get someone like smg to do it, that’s about the best combo for the j (unless the aluminum ones off the, I believe, grand am, are better?). Everyone who has made replacements, like rksport, has had problems with them breaking.
-----------------------------------------------------
98' Pontiac Sunfire SE
SMG really should state in their description that they welded the arms. It's basically the only reason I could see these being worth the $250.
If you have ever taken a look at the stock control arms, you will see that they are already spot seam welded around the edges. True, they do not have a bead going along the entire seam, but when does the full weld make a difference? I'm not questioning whether having a full bead is better than spots. What I'm questioning is: are these are worth $250. (Are there any additional or built in core charges? -could be worth it depending on if they issue a return credit.)
I will also say this though. I did had someone fully seam weld my control arms (before people found that the aluminum arms work). In retrospect though, I really don't anticipate much of a difference. I can't ever recall hearing anyone who broke an OEM control arm from launching. And I'm not sure this will really help in one's 60' time.
I suppose if you've damaged your control arms, it might not be a bad idea (seeing as how a set of control arms go for close to $120 on eBay). However, for the everyday J owner who is simply trying to upgrade what they have now, I think you could be much better off buying good balljoints, a set of bushings, and spending a few hours doing this yourself.
Back from the dead.
I just picked up a set of the SMG control arms. Also had a tb ported by them.
They did install new ball joints, the bushings, seam welded all around, and coated them in black.
Great customer service, Fred kept in touch with me the whole time.
Got me the parts delivered excatly when I needed.
It was a great experience overall.
I'm gonna get some pics up of the arms for folks to see.
Gotta get them installed so I can send my originals back.
They don't like to charge a core fee, so this should help with that.
Pics to follow.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
I got the SMG control arms too. don't forget to add the they put in ball joints that can be greased, not sealed units like stock. and they use all heavy duty hardware.
SMG is a great company.
Desert Tuners
“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
Wouldn't welding the seams on the control arms add weight to the control arms.
Adding weight would be adding unsprung weight which for handling purposes, would be a bad thing.
For the money spent on the welded control arms, the aluminum control arms from the G/A and the Alero would be overall cheaper.
This would include the welding of the ball joint holes, the bushings which are a cinch to install, and Moog lifetime warrantied ball joints from AutoZone for 20 bucks each.
Now you have the same basic assembly as what SMG offers but in a much lighter weight than what they offer, solid construction like the seam welded units, and poly bushings.
I had originally wanted to seam weld my control arms too until I found out about the Alero control arms.
Here's what I paid for my aluminum control arm setup and did all of the work myself with simple hand tools with the exception of the welding of the ball joint holes.
Used aluminum control arms from the junkyard that I pulled off-$35 bucks
Having a machine shop weld in the holes of the ball joint from the arms-$60 bucks
Removing the factory bushings and installing the poly bushings-free
Getting the greasable, lifetime warranty Moogs from AutoZone-$45 for both
Total cost including the miscellaneous items needed to do the install-$150 bucks
There's a great writeup about the aluminum control arms on the JBO and elsewhere.
Good info and easy how to.
Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO! 
Mastin wrote:
They did install new ball joints, the bushings, seam welded all around, and coated them in black.
Great customer service, Fred kept in touch with me the whole time.
Got me the parts delivered excatly when I needed.
It was a great experience overall.
I'm gonna get some pics up of the arms for folks to see.
Gotta get them installed so I can send my originals back.
They don't like to charge a core fee, so this should help with that.
Pics to follow.
-M
FReQ Z wrote:I got the SMG control arms too. don't forget to add the they put in ball joints that can be greased, not sealed units like stock. and they use all heavy duty hardware.
SMG is a great company.
I'm glad to hear you guys are happy with SMG's product. I really think they should include everything in their description (if they haven't already updated it).
$250 for new control arms, ball-joints, bushing install, welding, coating, and having no down-time from having these off your car is a pretty damn good price if you don't have access to the tools or the time to do this to your stockers.
Misnblu wrote:Wouldn't welding the seams on the control arms add weight to the control arms.
Adding weight would be adding unsprung weight which for handling purposes, would be a bad thing.
For the money spent on the welded control arms, the aluminum control arms from the G/A and the Alero would be overall cheaper.
This would include the welding of the ball joint holes, the bushings which are a cinch to install, and Moog lifetime warrantied ball joints from AutoZone for 20 bucks each.
Now you have the same basic assembly as what SMG offers but in a much lighter weight than what they offer, solid construction like the seam welded units, and poly bushings.
I had originally wanted to seam weld my control arms too until I found out about the Alero control arms.
Here's what I paid for my aluminum control arm setup and did all of the work myself with simple hand tools with the exception of the welding of the ball joint holes.
Used aluminum control arms from the junkyard that I pulled off-$35 bucks
Having a machine shop weld in the holes of the ball joint from the arms-$60 bucks
Removing the factory bushings and installing the poly bushings-free
Getting the greasable, lifetime warranty Moogs from AutoZone-$45 for both
Total cost including the miscellaneous items needed to do the install-$150 bucks
There's a great writeup about the aluminum control arms on the JBO and elsewhere.
Good info and easy how to.
I somewhat agree here. I started to question the need for stronger control arms due to an overall lack of problems with the OEM ones. Of course, I questioned it after I already had them done.
The welds wont add much weight at all, and I think the differences in handling would be negligible. Of course, testing this is pretty much impossible because it would be hard to isolate the added weight of the welded control arms in a controlled environment.
I would have went with the aluminum arms, but I had these done before this mod was discovered/popularized. I may still swap them out in the future, but we'll see.
My cost:
Used control arms: free (from my old 96)
Control arm poly bushings: $35 from Karo
Having a buddy press out the old bushings and weld the seams: traded for a stock gray headliner
Napa Gold Ball joints w/grease fittings (Lifetime warranty): $105
Priming/Painting them myself to match the rest of the subframe: $10 for materials
So, about $150 for my arms too, mainly because of the ball joints. The Autozone ones I bought/returned for about $45 were very 'frail'. The boot seemed really thin, and they started to rust on the surface very quickly. These definately were not Moogs, but rather Duralast or some other generic company. Autozone offered special order Duralasts, but they came out to about the same price as the Napa Golds and NG's were in stock.
I do not think welding the stockers or going with the GA ones neither are worth it. I see no real gain from either way. I would go with the bushings.
FU Tuning
Quote:
if you don't have access to the tools or the time to do this to your stockers
And thats what it usually comes down to.
Since the next question would be, who's willing to do the foot work for the GA arms?
And I say foot work, because even with if money is no object, still, not too many folks have the extra free time to do such things.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
John Higgins wrote:I do not think welding the stockers or going with the GA ones neither are worth it. I see no real gain from either way. I would go with the bushings.
Then you aren't pushing them enough.
There is such a thing as control arm flex (
This page from a post OHV notec made) . How much our cars demonstrate this, well... I don't know if we will ever know.
Being that our control arms are a 2 piece design, there is more probability the arms will separate at the seams during forces strong enough to cause the arms to flex (again, where this is, I don't think we'll ever know). Welding the seam would prevent this lateral movement and transfer the energy throughout the rest of the arm (or break the weld
).
Something I failed to mention before: In addition to welding the seams, I also intend to fill the arms with urethane foam (
from USC) to stiffen up the arm a bit. I figure this should be on par with the Grand Am aluminium arms, but for a lot less $ (at least for me).
I have the aluminum control arms and they are alot lighter than stock. I spent around 175 to do my swap. BUt i got bad ball joints so they will be coming back out soon.
