jw if the tein edfc will work in conjunction with koni yellows. ive never seen the unit nor really know much about it, so any insight would be greatly appreciated.
id love to be able to adjust my yellows at the push of a button. i saw it done on a honda a few nights ago and it was neat as hell.
or well, for that matter if koni has ever made a similar unit for yellows.. anything?
thanks.
All the EDFC are stepper motors controlled elctronically.
I figure, as longs as the screw thing that comes off the motor can fit in the Koni adjuster, then it should work.
Get it secured down, and go at it.
Granted, you can't go the 16 levels or whatever.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
hmm, it'd be a pretty expensive 'try it n see' deal tho
this is directly from koni:
What do you mean by EDFC? If you are referring to electronic damping
control we have not mad those systems since the 80s.
Thanks,
Bob Noack
booooo
I never knew it was adjusted by a stepper motor......
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Yup,
Four little cubes.
And there is a little stem that comes off of them you put in the adjuster on top of the strut.
Plug it in to the electronic controller, and adjust away.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
With a drill and some JB weld, it'd work.
muffin wrote:With a drill and some JB weld, it'd work.
uh huh, ill get right on that!
wow, the dood from koni sure seems to have an attitude about it, maybe their jealous of tein's unit?
I doubt it would work. The adjustment knobs on the Konis are alot harder to adjust than the Teins, the stepper motor want to kill itself trying to adjust them.....dont be cheap......buy the best the first time!!!
Joshua Dearman wrote:dont be cheap......buy the best the first time!!!
i was told for YEARS that koni's were the best from the ORG hahahaaha
meh, im just lazy and dont want to get out and adjust things. maybe i'll get the tein setup next year and save the yellows for my other car. but god damn... GREEN?
yuck.
z yaaaa wrote:i was told for YEARS that koni's were the best from the ORG hahahaaha
They are, but only because Penske doesn't make a direct fit, and I'm willing to bet no one here will even consider trying it due to "too much work (research)". Hell, finding the right part numbers would make for an even easier install than a GC/Koni setup with alot less pieces.
I'm curious to know why you want/need some sort of adjustment system like this. Other than the "cool" factor, it really serves no purpose.
Its probably possible to do this. You would need to make sure the amount of revolutions lock-lock is the same, unless theres an electronic limiter built in. It would also need some machine work to get the units mounted on the struts.
James Cahill wrote:I'm curious to know why you want/need some sort of adjustment system like this. Other than the "cool" factor, it really serves no purpose.
i have strut tower caps on my front's and its really annoying to have to remove them to adjust.
its more than just a 'cool' factor, my ultimate goal with this car is to have more options and have things easy to use.
the rears are a bitch to get to and adjust, well, not that bad really... just annoying.
id like to be able to get them adjusted pefectly in tune with each other, not just my 'steady' hand's way.
Konis are good, dont get me wrong but I've owned both and for our cars and the Teins are the best by far. The writer of that thread may have hundreds of hours of experience testing shocks and I'm not about to say he doesn't know what hes talking about but I've owned both...driven both...had likes and dislikes of both, but all total the Teins are better. Yes, I wouldn't disagree that the adjusters on the teins have too many positions and you would need to move like 3 or so positions before you begin to feel any change. It seemed his biggest complaints and why he was calling everything but a hand full crap was because of the adjusters, I cant argue.....they really are a gimmick....and I agree the adjustments aren't consistent as he explains. As far as "fade" as he exsplians it....I'll remember not to do massive whoops in my car.....there.....problem solved lol. But really he doesn't show any graphical proof to back his claims of jap=crap as far as fade. I would guess his shock dyno program he setup was more for testing purposes and had nothing to do with realistic driving experiences so I would have to put into question most all of his fade evidence really. His program could overheat the shock and cause all of the issues he complains about with the fade...when in actual driving conditions the shock wouldn't get as hot. For spirited driving and for tight autocross tracks my teins owned my konis....bottom line.
i think comparing the 2 is like comparing apples and oranges. your comparing a strut vs a full coilover setup.
Adjustable dampers are the absolute last thing used to tune a suspension, since they make the least amount of difference. I can understand wanting it easier to adjust, but it should only need to be adjusted once. Period. The rate of damping is based on the spring rate, not the surface you're driving on or anything else. So unless you're changing your spring rate every time you hop in the car, adjustable damping won't do you any good. I know some of you are going to think "What the heck does he know? That makes no sense! Everytime I adjust my dampers, I feel a difference!" Yes, you will feel a difference, but thats only because you've moved the damper out of the effective damping range for the spring rate you're running. It only takes a tiny bit of damping rate change to have an effect on the wheel rate. Anything more and you're out of the "sweet spot". There is no perfect formula for figuring out where you should adjust the dampers to, since it will vary from car to car, as every wheel rate is different.
Tein vs. Koni vs. Penske- I haven't see anyone run Teins at a National SOLO event AFAIK. And very few people run them at regional events (except for the guys just getting into the sport). I do see alot of Konis and Penskes. That alone tells me the Teins come in 3rd. They may be the best for the street, but in competition, they just can't hang. In fact, almost everyone I race with runs either Konis or Bilsteins (on street cars) or Penskes (on race cars). Another thing the Konis and Penskes have going for them is field rebuild-ability. Take it off the car, adjust/change shims, replace seals, and have a completely different valved damper in under an hour. I'm probably a bit biased here, because I look at products like this and base my decision on how well it will hold up in competition and how long it lasts. I've never used Tein products, simply because no one else I run with does, and they alot more experience than me.
I read a majority of that page and started to question my own purchases and recommendations. Then I realized something: I'm not as hardcore as he is.
I've never competed in an autocross. I have no intentions on becoming an all out SCCA competitor. I'd love to try it out and learn how to effectively maneuver my car(s), but the fact of the matter is I never intend to compete against this guy.
Therefore, I believe my suspension choices and recommendations are in line with my goals and those asking for help. If you are seriously wanting to get the ultimate Auto-X set up, chances are you know enough about AutoX or will find the information on your own. The majority of people on this site asking about
struts are simply wanting a nice ride for their lowered suspension.
James Cahill wrote:Adjustable dampers are the absolute last thing used to tune a suspension, since they make the least amount of difference. I can understand wanting it easier to adjust, but it should only need to be adjusted once. Period. The rate of damping is based on the spring rate, not the surface you're driving on or anything else. So unless you're changing your spring rate every time you hop in the car, adjustable damping won't do you any good. I know some of you are going to think "What the heck does he know? That makes no sense! Everytime I adjust my dampers, I feel a difference!" Yes, you will feel a difference, but thats only because you've moved the damper out of the effective damping range for the spring rate you're running. It only takes a tiny bit of damping rate change to have an effect on the wheel rate. Anything more and you're out of the "sweet spot". There is no perfect formula for figuring out where you should adjust the dampers to, since it will vary from car to car, as every wheel rate is different.
Tein vs. Koni vs. Penske- I haven't see anyone run Teins at a National SOLO event AFAIK. And very few people run them at regional events (except for the guys just getting into the sport). I do see alot of Konis and Penskes. That alone tells me the Teins come in 3rd. They may be the best for the street, but in competition, they just can't hang. In fact, almost everyone I race with runs either Konis or Bilsteins (on street cars) or Penskes (on race cars). Another thing the Konis and Penskes have going for them is field rebuild-ability. Take it off the car, adjust/change shims, replace seals, and have a completely different valved damper in under an hour. I'm probably a bit biased here, because I look at products like this and base my decision on how well it will hold up in competition and how long it lasts. I've never used Tein products, simply because no one else I run with does, and they alot more experience than me.
I see a lot of seasoned drivers running Tein coilovers on Subaru's. They seem to hold up just fine under competition. I haven't driven on Tein's myself, but I think IamRascal runs them and is competitive in STS at his regional level.
In addition, I prefer to make an adjustment to my struts depending on some surfaces. I tend to firm up a bit for concrete and soften a touch for rougher surfaces to prevent the wheels from lifting-- one place I run at has a 2" edge where newer asphalt begins. If you are running a relatively soft lowering spring (compared to coil overs) I think it is advantageous to use the strut to make up for the soft spring.
i dont plan on really ever running my car at an auto X event or otherwise, i basically got my koni's so the ride wouldnt be so damn harsh. but i will tell you that when mine were set to full stiff, the car really didnt seem to act much different in terms of handling, it just rode like crap. i had to adjust them back to full soft because i simply couldnt stand the ride.
i myself dont think its really worth it to have the adjustment on the street, in autoXing and such, i could most definatly see it. you just arent going to be doing corners at a really high rate of speed on the street. sure you can do it for a lil fun here n there, but ultimatly, most wont even take corners fast enough to worry about it.
BUT, i wanted to be able to adjust things at the turn of a dial/flip of switch or w/e the EDFC uses in order to have a stiffer suspension when and if the need ever arrived on the street to want to get on it around a corner and such.
I could see this as being beneficial because I know my gravanas ride TOTALLY different from highway to street. Being able to adjust the dampening from inside the car would do wonders. I've never seen the EDFC in person so im not sure if it would work with the yellows but it sounds like a good idea.
Boosted 2200, Summer 2007
"Adjustable dampers are the absolute last thing used to tune a suspension, since they make the least amount of difference. I can understand wanting it easier to adjust, but it should only need to be adjusted once. Period. The rate of damping is based on the spring rate, not the surface you're driving on or anything else. So unless you're changing your spring rate every time you hop in the car, adjustable damping won't do you any good. I know some of you are going to think "What the heck does he know? That makes no sense! Everytime I adjust my dampers, I feel a difference!" Yes, you will feel a difference, but thats only because you've moved the damper out of the effective damping range for the spring rate you're running. It only takes a tiny bit of damping rate change to have an effect on the wheel rate. Anything more and you're out of the "sweet spot". There is no perfect formula for figuring out where you should adjust the dampers to, since it will vary from car to car, as every wheel rate is different.
Tein vs. Koni vs. Penske- I haven't see anyone run Teins at a National SOLO event AFAIK. And very few people run them at regional events (except for the guys just getting into the sport). I do see alot of Konis and Penskes. That alone tells me the Teins come in 3rd. They may be the best for the street, but in competition, they just can't hang. In fact, almost everyone I race with runs either Konis or Bilsteins (on street cars) or Penskes (on race cars). Another thing the Konis and Penskes have going for them is field rebuild-ability. Take it off the car, adjust/change shims, replace seals, and have a completely different valved damper in under an hour. I'm probably a bit biased here, because I look at products like this and base my decision on how well it will hold up in competition and how long it lasts. I've never used Tein products, simply because "
How can you even say adjustable dampers are the last thing used to tune a suspension? The reason people use Tein suspension is because they are so tunable, you don't have just settings for compression ie koni's, you also have rebound settings. Spring rates are important, but when you can adjust the compression and rebound speed of the coilover you have a more complete suspension. Springs have a rate for compression, but what about return speed? Thats why people buy coilovers that are adjustable. Matching the spring rate, the compression rate of the damper and rebound speed of the damper are the most key things to making a car handle at its best. A stiffer chassis, bushings and strut tower braces are to endure less body roll. When do you see car car lap a track with just these things that can blow away somebody that has a tunable suspension like Teins? I've driven both konis and teins and i've even driven with the tein super racing dampers that cost upwards of $2500! The dampers do matter more than what most people realize.
jd soza wrote:How can you even say adjustable dampers are the last thing used to tune a suspension? The reason people use Tein suspension is because they are so tunable, you don't have just settings for compression ie koni's, you also have rebound settings. Spring rates are important, but when you can adjust the compression and rebound speed of the coilover you have a more complete suspension. Springs have a rate for compression, but what about return speed? Thats why people buy coilovers that are adjustable. Matching the spring rate, the compression rate of the damper and rebound speed of the damper are the most key things to making a car handle at its best. A stiffer chassis, bushings and strut tower braces are to endure less body roll. When do you see car car lap a track with just these things that can blow away somebody that has a tunable suspension like Teins? I've driven both konis and teins and i've even driven with the tein super racing dampers that cost upwards of $2500! The dampers do matter more than what most people realize.
He said adjustable struts don't matter because there is only one BEST valving for each car/spring combo. So, if your non-adjustable struts are valved correctly, you can no longer improve with an adjusting screw (which is not accurate in the first place..ie "3" on one strut could be similar to "6" on another).
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
OHV notec wrote:So, if your non-adjustable struts are valved correctly, you can no longer improve with an adjusting screw (which is not accurate in the first place..ie "3" on one strut could be similar to "6" on another).
exactly. this is why i want to be able to tune mine electronically, because im sorry my hands and eye arent going to get those adjustments absolutly perfect.
it'd be nice to find a happy medium between soft and stiff as well, without having to get out and adjust ever 5 minutes for until things are perfect.
z yaaaa wrote:without having to get out and adjust ever 5 minutes for until things are perfect.
Suspensions are tuned the same as engines. You do the math, apply your optimal solution, and perform iterative testing until you land the best result possible. The more time you're willing to put into it, the better the results.
If you want to pay more, just have a chassis engineer design you some bilsteins for your particular car/spring setup. After selling the Teins, it'll probably be cheaper than buying an EDFC, and then machining it to work with your Teins.
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
