I have always been one that thinks one should only buy quality parts. SO with this i have always been against cutting springs. All i hear on this is how dangerous it is and how bad the ride sux. Now this is what i dont get. Im watching overhaulin and Chip Foose himself cut spring on a car to lower it. Then the next day on Wrecks to riches ( i think thats what it was called) the guy cut the springs on that car also. So whats up, why are these two shows cutting springs, is there somthing i dont know???

watched a guy do it at my work on a hot rod. lot of people talk with no experience. i think it all depends on how much u actually cut out.


http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA

I think some of it is that older muscle cars had huge thickness springs that still had strength when cut

^^^bingo...todays springs arent as durable, plus some of them are progressive

cutting springs changes the spring rate. our cars can barely handle the oem springs. cutting them is not an option

Let's look at it this way.

You can cut the stock springs and lower it, for a ton cheaper, or buy some shorter springs for a high price, that are basically the same as a cut spring.

I see no danger in it, I know of alot of people that have done it and it affected nothing. It doesn't weaken the spring.



1983 Camaro Z28

i know some people who cut aftermarket springs on their cars because they arent satisfied with the drop. they had springs with "dead coils " tho. it still rode nice too.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, June 24, 2006 7:57 PM

Heres my take

It is always better to buy the proper springs. $200.00 for piece of mind is cheap IMO. Especially if your point of modification is performance. As your car goes lower you want a higher spring rate, when you cut a stock spring you have the same springrate but the car is lower, and in the case of progressive rate springs when cut you would have a springrate that is way too soft.

A cut spring will also not seat properly so it is always a liability IMO.

Personally when I take my car autoxing and take some corners fast while daily driving. I like having the piece of mind that my suspension is properly engineered and designed to work the way it ought to. Rather than cutting some springs becuase it "looks good".

Also Overhaulin and many of these shows often know what looks good but may not know what is safe or smart.


-Chris

Cut springs are not as bad as heated springs. I wouldnt do it but a cut spring does not have the chance of breaking like a heated spring. also, the lower perches on our cars will accept and seat a cut spring.


2004 Cavalier, 2.2L Ecotec
1965 El Camino, 396 BBC, 14:1, 800 BHP

ive known guys to cut springs and have it be fine, ive also seen people cut springs and they bounce down the road and i laugh at them. it all depends on the knowledge of the person doing the cutting, the spring type (progressive/linear) and the spring rate itself.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

Cut Springs --> Darwinism
It's a bad idea, but do it if you want. I won't laugh too hard if you break something or wreak your car.
When you can explain spring rates, metal fatigue, and the annealing process, then you're ready to consider cutting springs. And when I say explain, I don't mean general definitions; I mean scientific equations.

ling427ttvette wrote:Let's look at it this way.

You can cut the stock springs and lower it, for a ton cheaper, or buy some shorter springs for a high price, that are basically the same as a cut spring.

I see no danger in it, I know of alot of people that have done it and it affected nothing. It doesn't weaken the spring.

you sir should not be giving advice in the suspension forum. do you know anything about spring rates?

See i do not agree with the spring failing. The spring rate will change, but ive never seen one fail. The biggest problem ive seen with cut springs is the fact that stock springs were designed to perform at the stock height. When you cut the spring, you are using a spring that is not made for performance (read:soft) travel a lesser distance. this often leads to bottoming out (when the bump stop hits the stop). This can create dangerous driving situations. I would personally reccommend against cutting a spring but if you want to test darwins theory, go ahead; just for your sake do not heat the spring up to lower the car.


2004 Cavalier, 2.2L Ecotec
1965 El Camino, 396 BBC, 14:1, 800 BHP

On my old FireBird we heated the springs to drop it a couple inches. But those springs were seriously heavy duty massive monsters compaired to the twig like springs on a Cavi. The springs on a Cavi. can actualy be compressed by hand a little but those old monster springs of the FireBird wouldn't budge unless you had a compressor.


Our newer little cars are waaaaaaaay different then the old muscle cars and hot rods so things that work fine for them may not for us.





Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

The reason those shows are able to get away with cutting springs is because those cars are using linear rate springs. The spring rate doesn't change when you cut linear rate springs. As long as they only take a reasonable amount off it isn't going to be a big deal.

Our cars are using progressive rate springs. When you trim those springs it will durastically affect your spring rate. That is why everyone tells you not to cut our springs.

take a watch at what kind of system they are cutting the springs on. if its a MacPherson system its unsafe because the springs have flat top perches to sit properly. when you cut them they can travel off the perch during cornering or turning in general. a system like a Mustang that uses a spring separate from any turning compnents can be cut because it doesn't have to turn.

nasty04cav wrote:I have always been one that thinks one should only buy quality parts. SO with this i have always been against cutting springs. All i hear on this is how dangerous it is and how bad the ride sux. Now this is what i dont get. Im watching overhaulin and Chip Foose himself cut spring on a car to lower it. Then the next day on Wrecks to riches ( i think thats what it was called) the guy cut the springs on that car also. So whats up, why are these two shows cutting springs, is there somthing i dont know???

theres a difference between cutting linear rate springs and cutting progressive rate springs....which j-bodies have...


progressive rate springs cover a range of spring rates in one spring. you cut it, its like cutting a crucial part of the entire spring.



a linear spring which most older cars have, are simply one rate the entire spring.

it doesnt matter if the springs are progressive or not, you just have to know how to cut them and where (which side is the soft and which is the stiff side of the spring. if you use a hacksaw or cut off wheel with water to cool then your good, its when you heat the spring that faliures will occure.

been around this stuff my whole life, never seen a properly done spring fail. i'm not reccomending you go run out to the garage and do this as a proper spring is imo better but some just dont go low enough. and IMO coilovers are @!#$ junk! i would never invest in a set just to go beyond low.




_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**

When talking to people who browes board that really don't know what they are doing buying springs is their best bet.
As said there is a difference between cutting progressive springs and linear springs. Majority of people who are on the net are not that skilled so to avoid any problems buy some springs.


2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time

This thread is great!

Manitoba Motorsports wrote:it doesnt matter if the springs are progressive or not, you just have to know how to cut them and where (which side is the soft and which is the stiff side of the spring. if you use a hacksaw or cut off wheel with water to cool then your good, its when you heat the spring that faliures will occure.

been around this stuff my whole life, never seen a properly done spring fail. i'm not reccomending you go run out to the garage and do this as a proper spring is imo better but some just dont go low enough. and IMO coilovers are @!#$ junk! i would never invest in a set just to go beyond low.

disagree on a few things....

actually it DOES matter. ask any major company whos done more research than any of us has or will spend on our cars prob in our whole life time. just cause you have never seen something doesnt mean that its applicable. its like saying...i;ve never seen someone shot and killed, so i cant say that guns or more so stupid MF's with guns "dont" kill people.

theres two things that REALLLLLY seem amiss in your post:


1st: no two springs are made exactly the same,ESPECIALLY WHEN PROGRESSIVE if you think two springs are exactly identical, then that shows your credibility there.

being that no two springs are identical, unless you are just doing some backyard bushleague shade tree mechanic appearance mods where you are only cutting the springs cause you wanna lower the car, the point for suspension is to be somewhat equal.

corner weighing is the most effective to offset the driver, however if you arent gonna get that far into it, you shoot to make things exactly even for the most part. cutting a progressive spring there is no REALISTIC way for you to know where a spring starts with a different spring rate and ends with another range.... not to mention as already pointed out, progressive rated springs are wound narrow near one end and wider near the other. so cutting a j-body spring (as prime example) ....really messes things up.

and yes this ALSO throws off the damping which ultimately throws off the handling and premature damage to struts.. you cut the soft side, you remove more distance from the coils on the smaller side as these are usually partially compressed when the car is on ground. from doing that alone you take away travel from the strut, then you also take away the softer sides of the spring which the struts are usually designed for. softer suspension setups.

if you decide to take away the stiffer side, you dont take away as much height, however you take away the part of the spring thats there to keep things "solid". if anyone has ever run a car with springs that are too soft, you will see and notice its easier to overstress a strut from lack of stiff enough suspension.

plus isnt that the reason we get upgraded springs....to be stiffer, to handle better.

i know someone here will say, "well i;ve done it, and my car hasnt done this or that" .....those are also the same people who will ride on blown struts and say its fine.


2nd you stated

Quote:

and IMO coilovers are @!#$ junk! i would never invest in a set just to go beyond low.

you just made the statement coilovers are (fill in the cussword) junk! now were you referring to ebay coilovers, or a certain brand? cause for someone who CLAIMS to have been around this your whole life... yet you were only born in 1985 (there are fast learners, but no one EVER ceases learning) ..... making a statement like that definately shows either one of two things

1) you just forgot to specify a brand, or style of coilover

or

2) you really dont know half of what you THINK you may know.

considering pretty much ALL RACE TEAMS, drag and road course, from top level drag racers to nascar to lemans to SCCA GT1 and GT2, P1 and P2 use coilovers to dial in a car, its pretty much the most "meat and potatoes" of suspension adjustment when it comes to tuning a car and making it stick.



totally understandable if you mean getting cheap ebay coilovers and then slamming them. i agree on that matter, since anyone who knows anything about suspension knows there need to be a certain range of articulation for things to work properly.

however if you meant ALL coilovers are junk...that def would put a chink in your credibility to anything you had to say about suspension.


overall, you see people like chip foose and those doing em on linear springs as many have already said, in addition most of the peoples cars will rarely be driven hard with the amount of paint and fiberglass thrown on em and all his signature wheels and stuff. they arent race track cars. its drive up to the drive in cruising type cars really..

others do it for cosmetics...

however realistically, it might look good cosmetically. but you can pretty much congratulate yourself on DE-Engineering your handling.

^^^ what he said


2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time

To add to that, remember that shop's like Foose's have wheel scales and spring rate scales, so they can measure the free height and rates to cut the springs to the proper length and have a safer, balanced ride. They also use a cold cutting method, as not to temper the steel, making it brittle. You also change the spring rates when cutting a linear coil, depending whether the coils is a dead coil or an active coil and they have the experience to determine the change by cutting those coils. BTW, removing an active coil does increase the rate, by removing some of the active portion of the spring.

I wouldn't cut any springs, unless they were linear and I had a spring rate scale and all the formulas on hand to figure the rate changes. Even then I would be double and triple checking the numbers and have someone with reliable experience to check things over.

On progressive rate springs, I'll stick to a reputable manufacturer and buy from them.