Joshua Dearman wrote:I think the daytona swaps cool and all, but I think part availability will be a big issue.
Do the rears really need to be vented? - no
"really" is subjective. If you can lock up your tires with the tire size you use while racing then your brakes are good enough. Throw Rdot slicks on for an auto-x, stiffen up your suspension and now you can't lock em up stock or with good pads etc.
Furthermore, stiffen up the susepsnion and a lot less weight transfer occours (good) when slowing down. That means less force on teh front brakes then stock, and more on the rear brakes.
That extra stress on the brakes get's em hot. Once the pads are running to hot, they will do all sorts of nasty things like lose clamping force, burn the pads/deform them, glaze the rotors, leave deposits, boil brake fluid and etc etc etc. Keeping them cooler also let's you run "cheaper" pads, that are less aggressive and work better for street driving. Running a high end racing pad on the street means you don't get grip TILL their hot which means you have to switch pads for street driving.
All in all, anything you can do to keep your brakes cool is good. Venting them and making them larger is essential to that.
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Fronts do way more than the front, if you brake hard enough to require vented rear then you already have purchased the big brake front kit, and if your gonna drop that kinda money for the front, then why would you do a DIY conversion on the back. Just buy a F+R kit since you can afford it anyway. The neon swap is for those people who hate drum and hate expensive brake kits. I really don't think the daytona offers any advantage over the neon, when you really think about it, but thats just me.
Fronts do less in a modifed car that's built for racing with a stiff suspension as I noted.
Why would you NOT want to buy a rear kit? Cost due to ebrake. Calipers with ebrake support are mega money compared to normal ones for decent setups. As you stated the fronts due more and spending huge money on rear claipers doing less braking, is not as worth it. Sure I'd like to have wilwoods all around but for comprable calipers to my fronts with ebrake support would be double the cost easily.
Joshua Dearman wrote:The other thing that bothers me besides the much less availability of the parts in yards even compared to neon stuff
The ONLY thing you NEED from the daytona or donor car is the backplate. Neon adjusters will work, you can buy new hardware and calipers and rotors. And the parts are more common then you think or even I thoguht originally. Here is the cars I KNOW you can get these brakes off of due to cross checking them... :
89-93 Daytona
89-95 Lebaron
93-94 Shadonw
87-94 Sundance
91-92 AMC Spirit
It doesn't need to be a special model. Just look for the ones with 14"/15" wheels in the junkyard. Any car with them is pretty much guarranteed to have at least the solid rear disc if not the vented.. Pretty much any FWD dodge from that "era" are eligible for them. I got mine off a Daytona IROC R/T. They also came on all Daytona Shelby's.
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is the caliper not being any larger. With the same sized caliper without changing the MC or anything you can't put any additional pressure on the rotor
How do you know the caliper isnt' any larger? Perhaps you're unclear on what determines "Caliper size". It's something you can't see. It's the INTERNAL size of the backside of the piston. The area the brake fluid pushes on. That's what determines the "size". So unless you found specs for that or have taken both calipers apart, I don't see how you'd know that. I'm willing to bet the daytona caliper has larger piston.
I saw some 10" 94 Grand prix rear brakes, anyone know if they can be made to work with jbodies??
Don't buy from MANTAPART!!
The cars you listed is really my biggest concern....even the most common lebaron was sold in very small quantities. I've barely seen those cars on the road much less in the yard. Don't get me wrong, I understand the concept and advantage of vented but I just don't think your in the target market is all I'm saying. The people doing a DIY rear brake are people who hate drums and dont have cash. Real Auto-X'ers will either hold out for your swap or a full kit. But lets face it, how many people on this forum say they auto-x but you find them posting that next week asking if they can drop on GR2's!!!!! Also, how many others on here try to auto-x there stocker?. So why would they be interested in full out auto X-ing setup with vented rears when theres a huge added hassle of part availability. I know as of yet, people think only neon sports are the only donor car, or one of the few. I've been machining brackets for some time now and been to the yards several times. I've found the brackets needed on '95-05 intrepid, most stratus, cirrus, breeze, sebring, and lots of concordes. The part numbers on these brackets are different because the bearing is different between alot of the cars however all of the bearings are smaller than our 2.4" so these all can still be bored-out to fit our cars. Like I said......seriously awesome setup protonus.
As far as caliper size...Typically when the piston bore changes so will the size of the caliper, and I thought I remember someone saying they are the same size as the neon, if thats wrong no problem, that would be cool if they were bigger. Nice vented setup on larger bore caliper would be nice but my local part shop verified that the caliper replacement piston part numbers for neon calipers are the same as all the cars you listed. However the larger diameter rotor has its advantage to help in braking
I can go to my yard any day and never come back with less than 5 sets of brackets....no problem.
Honestly tho, I'm not trying to piss anybody off, I just dont want anybody to be more confused.
However I dont think the goal of testing your braking system is to see if you can "lock up your tires". In any racing besides drifting this is the worst thing that could possibly happen, especially on racing tires. Racing tires have good static friction coefficient but have crappy kinetic friction coefficient. - meaning they suck at recovering from a slide or lock up.
You ever seen a nascar recover from a slide? - nope, not gonna happen. The kinetic friction sucks. That would be my worst fear is to haul a$$ into a turn hit the brakes too hard and slide off the road. Why would you even want the ability for this to happen. When I got my swap finished I took my car to the local pad and made sure I couldn't lock-up anything. Which with ABS and the regular neon setup it doesn't have any problems.
I really want to see more info on your setup tho....like I said, I'm jealous of it, I just dont want people trying to hunt for the needle in the hay stack all while getting even more less-excited about the swap....- ya know? I'd really like to see this swap work for alot of people because its so easy and cheap.
I have just revisited this thread and read my posting again and I really didn't mean to sounds like an a$$ if you got that feeling from it. I really do like your setup...I will start looking through my yard for the cars listed and see what I can do with it. I just hope either brake swap becomes more common. Theres nothing wrong with options. I can't wait to see your how-to Protonus.
Joshua Dearman wrote:I have just revisited this thread and read my posting again and I really didn't mean to sounds like an a$$ if you got that feeling from it. I really do like your setup...I will start looking through my yard for the cars listed and see what I can do with it. I just hope either brake swap becomes more common. Theres nothing wrong with options. I can't wait to see your how-to Protonus.
You didn't sound like an ass at all, trust me, i'm a hard one to offend if you don't know me/my posting haha.
I like a good discussion.
If you're able to find the brakes and such I'd be curious to see how they work on a 3rd gen.
As I mentioned if you're looking for em.. just look for late 80's early nineties chryslers/AMC's that have 14" or 15" or 16" wheels. Nearly every FWD dodge back then had 13" wheels or 14" so if you find em with 15" or greater you're nearly guaranteed that you've at least found the solid rear disc if not the vented 11".
i was talking to someone and they told me that the rear discs off of a ford escort bolt right up, no mods needed. i don't think that's right. anyone know anything about this?
http://www.helpelijah.com
i have my wbody rear disc's brackets up for sale if anybody wants them, with used cailpers too. $150 Canaidan
BTW: i was wrong, me and my buddy's 98 cav's, his is a zed, mines a base, both dont have RPV's
woot! brackets are bored and milled
1998 Chevrolet Cavalier
5-spd
Sean McAfee wrote:i was talking to someone and they told me that the rear discs off of a ford escort bolt right up, no mods needed. i don't think that's right. anyone know anything about this?
I doubt it. Escorts are all 4 lug anyways, so it would require a redrilled rotor.
Jim- Dans been keeping me up to date with most of yor stuff. I'm waiting on a complete write up
Ok, here's some info for you guys to make live simpler
use 90s daytona rear lines, cut off the fitting to the wheel cylinder, flare a 3/16ths threaded brass fitting, and voila, bolts right into the daytona line.
the washers are 1/2inch, grab at any Home Depot, and then be prepared to bleed the @!#$s to no end. Havent done the ebrake yet, but will work on that soon.
1998 Chevrolet Cavalier
5-spd
I must say.........Finally a sticky!!!
so, i picked up two sets of 95 neon rear discs today (one for me, the other for ebay), and i also noticed that a lot of dodge/chrysler vehicles had VERY similar setups on there. has anyone else been able to figure out if the only difference in the brackets is the center hub hole?
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
berto, im gonna buy them off you and me you and dave are gonna all do our brakes on the same weekend
ebay only.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
swap's done on my car, love the pedal feel, a little soft, but i guess thats what i get with stocker rubber lines.
1998 Chevrolet Cavalier
5-spd
blkcav,
how long did it take ya?
im interested in doing this on mine?
hardest part of the whole swap was grinding down the material on the twist beam, and flaring the lines lol. still havent done the ebrake tho, but looks simple and straight forward
1998 Chevrolet Cavalier
5-spd
does anyone know the fitting size for the stock hard line bolt? i know that the fitting on the neon caliper is 7/16" x 24 (i believe thats right), now i just need to know the size of the hard line bolt. anybody?
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
i noticed on my 04 cavy that the drums are larger and are setup diff. does this mean that the wheel bearings are too? if so how does this affect the swap? thanks
2004 Cavalier, 2.2 ecotec, 5spd getrag
do you ever notice that the ones who talk the loudest have the least to talk about?
If the wheel bearings are the same it will work. Lookup autozone.com and find the part number for the bearing or call your local store to see if its the same. I would imagine it is the same.
Joshua Dearman wrote:If the wheel bearings are the same it will work. Lookup autozone.com and find the part number for the bearing or call your local store to see if its the same. I would imagine it is the same.
I already looked its the same part number
The bearings are the same from 92+.
just in case any one was looking, summit racing has the wilwood rpv's, as well as a few other things and non flare fittings...they pretty much clamp the lines in place, in case you are to lazy to do it...anyways heres the link
THE LINK<<---CLICK THERE, WHY ARE YOU CLICKING HERE?
OK, I have found out some things about the other intrepid and other mopar rear disc systems I've been finding and machining. The brackets work great with the neon caliper and rotor. I know thats not new news but I did find there is a different thickness of rotors between the intrepids and neons, still a solid rotor but just thicker on the intrepid than the neon sport. The rotors on the intrepids are a little wider of a grasp in order to fit the thicker rotor and the caliper brake line stud changes from a 7/16-24(neon) to 7/16-20(intrepid). I've never done the swap with the thicker intrepid rotors so I dont know if this would create a clearance issue with the dust guard or not. But it might be a interesting thing to look into. I know the intrepid brackets work fine with neon rotors and calipers as I've done 3 swaps with that setup so far in case anybody was curious.
