Everyone i talk to around here, and they are all non J-body people, say i won't see a difference in braking power if i go with slotted and drilled rotors and/or braided lines. Even my mechanic advised against me getting aftermarket and to just pick some up at Advanced. Are they right? Or is this a myth?
if you get some nice pads their will be difference.
The main reason I like the powerslots is that I had to get my rotors resurfaced 3 times in the first 30K I owned my car for. I paid the money for powerslots and havn't had a problem since.
Steel Braided will give you a better feel on the pedal, and some Hawk Pads will make a difference as well.
The individual parts by themselves don't do much but together as a system you'll notice a difference.
I highly reccomend Garavana's package deals you get everything for a good price and the brakes will last. I'm over 25K on the package I got from gravana with a season of autocrossing and their still going strong.
Buy quality parts the first time and you'll have to replace them less in the future.
If I hadn't been under warranty it would have been about 60.00 every time I got my rotors resurfaced. so at 3x I've got the price of a nice pair of powerslots.
Plus, they look cool and their functional.
-Chris
Don't listen to them....
Go to www.gravanatuning.com and get the powerslot rotors and hawk pad set up, and if you want to go with braided line he even has a combo that includes that those as well.
There is a definite difference in braking power. Plus if you drive hard they will react better when you get them hot. Cheap ones at advanced are nothing compared to the powerslot/hawk combo.
If you change your rotors and put in braided lines but continue to use the same brand of pads then I honestly doubt you'll feel a difference.
When shopping for rotors, you pay extra for quality and it's worth it. As mentioned above, they'll simply hold up better over time. Slotting and drilling in that size is just bling and won't help you stop any better.
As for braided lines... I think the change in pedal feel gets exaggerated but technically it should make a bit of a difference. Just don't expect to hit the brakes and think "Hot damn! I'm so happy I got braided lines!"
As I mentioned... the biggest factor is the pads. A quality pad will make a world of difference in stopping power and in fade resistance. Of course, if you have a better pad, it can chew up a cheap rotor in no time. That's where the quality rotors come in.
The best thing for an OE replacement set up is the Powerslot/Hawk Pad combo.
I don't have the braided lines, because I don't have wheels, so it seems pointless to me, considering you can't see them. I'm cheap and don't want to spend the $100 on them. But like Wild Weasel said, the biggest difference is going to come from the pads, but if you get hawk pads and cheap rotors, your rotors will go to sh!t in no time. Also, if you have good rotors and cheap pads, I have found that it can mess up the rotors.
www.gravanatuning.com <===== get there combo pack, it's $170 and WELL worth it.
You will notice a difference. Slotted rotors don't stay cooler, they are made so that the gasses that pads make are able to escape. On a standard rotor, the gasses would stay under the pad. The pad would float alittle on the gasses and not make direct contact with the rotors. Thus reducing braking efficiency.
Better ceramic pads will grip the rotor more, and reduce stopping distance. On a cheap rotor, they would wear it out fairly quickly.
Braided lines do not stretch when warm unlike the stock rubber hose. When the brake rubber hose stretches the brake line loses pressure, thus reducing pressure on the caliper, and in turn on the pads from gripping the rotor.
So by getting all three you would have a better brake system, and reduced braking distance.
But if you wanted to get just the rotors and pads, that would work too.
thats rite. but slots also allow the pad to bight into the rotor. this also gives u better braking but will eat your pads up faster. crossdrills just allow your brakes to cool better.
Working on obtainting an M-Class license... ?? Hint: 2 wheels.
Less brake fade.... definitely a good thing. You'd notice the most difference on a autocross course, or if you're braking HARD often. If you ride the brakes... or just so, so on them... then you won't notice much at all.
If you're a gentle braker, no you won't notice any difference.
If you're the average person, there will be some difference.
Autocrossers wouldn't even think of using an OE setup.
Point is, the harder you use brakes, the more aftermarket justify themselves.
anther point is. you never know the day someone might pull out in front of you and then they will play i big role in helping you stop and might avoid something
My next buy will be a bear front and rear combo.
I have brembo, cross drilled rotor and a decent set of pads there was some slight difference but the difference as said was less brake fade after a lot of use because they are able to cool off faster.
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
Chuck Norris Approved Evil Cav wrote:You will notice a difference. Slotted rotors don't stay cooler, they are made so that the gasses that pads make are able to escape. On a standard rotor, the gasses would stay under the pad. The pad would float alittle on the gasses and not make direct contact with the rotors. Thus reducing braking efficiency.
I think you've been reading too much marketing literature. Don't let them fool you. Slotting and drilling on rotors for our cars is eye candy. The pads aren't floating on gases. If the pads overheat, they're useless whether you've got slotted rotors or not.
Chuck Norris Approved Evil Cav wrote:
Braided lines do not stretch when warm unlike the stock rubber hose. When the brake rubber hose stretches the brake line loses pressure, thus reducing pressure on the caliper, and in turn on the pads from gripping the rotor.
Again, don't be sold by the marketers who want your money. That amount of "stretching" in our stock lines is minimal. I agree that braided lines are better, but don't think most people would even be able to tell the difference. Most people that feel a difference after installation and attribute it to the lines are actually just feeling the impact of having just bled their brake system for the first time in a while.
TORONTO CAVALIER wrote:thats rite. but slots also allow the pad to bight into the rotor. this also gives u better braking but will eat your pads up faster. crossdrills just allow your brakes to cool better.
Not true. You've got a flat pad pressed against a flat rotor. The friction is caused by contact and the slots and holes are areas where no contact is happening. This will actually reduce braking power, though not by a significant amount. Realistically, a slotted or drilled rotor is most likely also a high quality rotor and has better than average venting so this really isn't an issue. As I said... it's just eye candy.
The most important thing for rotors for our cars is the venting. Having something more advanced than your average cheapo rotors, such as Baer's Decala line, among others, with fancy internal vanes that maximize cooling will do more to improve your braking performance than any amount of slotting or drilling.
Braking is all about generating, and dissipating heat. You're taking the energy of the car's motion and, through friction, you're turning it into heat and then bleeding that heat off into the atmosphere. The more efficiently you can do that, the better you'll stop.
WW:
Those gasses really do reduce friction. Not nearly as much as the marketers would have you think. But it's there, and slotting/drilling really does solve that "problem".
Everyone keeps calling it a rubber hose. Do you guys actually think they're made of 100% rubber?! They're made of 3 (primary) layers, an inner sealing rubber layer, a middle braided steel layer for strength, and an outter rubber layer for corrosion protection.
Those braided stainless ones have an inner later of rubber to seal, a layer of braided for strength, and another layer of stainless for additional strength/good looks/corrosion resistance.
It is true that the pads will bite harder. They also have less to bite on to because there is less surface area. So it basically equals out in the end.
There are good reasons for BBKs, especially if you're hard on brakes. Many people get them for the looks however. All the mods to my car are for the looks, I don't race (competitively).
I mean WW make some good points but the cross drilled do help get rid of that heat and yea some of the more expensive rotor like Baer and Brembo their rotor when put on have to be put on in a certain direction to allow for better heat dissipation that our stock rotor. Powerslot as far as i know it does not matter what direction you put them on. There are rotors you can get that are not slotted or cross drilled that have internal ventilation.
The colbalt they used in superstreet for the challenge they had did not use cross drilled or slotted rotors, if i remember correctly from the program i watched thy used the stock rotors on that car.
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
ALL front rotors for our cars (and probably all cars these days) are internally ventilated. You only really see solid rotors used in the back.
The key difference is the shape of the vents. Having directional rotors is a good thing. The vanes inside have been optimized for cooling rather than compromised to make them universal.
Same reason all the best tires are directional.
most likely are right we don't know if the stock ones have internal ventilation. As i said even the Challenge they had in Superstreet. The Cobalt car use the stock GM rotors and some slightly better pads. So the rotors can not be all bad if they were the only car in the callenge that was using stock rotors.
Despite what we say most of us like the looks ot it as well. All disk have to be vented in some way. I wanted something different and I will say this.
I went to the track and there were not that many people there so i was literally turining around and running again and with the cross drilled rotor there was less fade but that is not normal everyday driving.
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
Mylife75 (ajose) wrote:most likely are right we don't know if the stock ones have internal ventilation. As i said even the Challenge they had in Superstreet. The Cobalt car use the stock GM rotors and some slightly better pads. So the rotors can not be all bad if they were the only car in the callenge that was using stock rotors.
Despite what we say most of us like the looks ot it as well. All disk have to be vented in some way. I wanted something different and I will say this.
I went to the track and there were not that many people there so i was literally turining around and running again and with the cross drilled rotor there was less fade but that is not normal everyday driving.
As far as rotors go, the stock ones are probably better than most of the cheap replacements people put on their cars when they need a brake job.
All front rotors are vented. Just look at them. There's two surface areas with space in between for air to flow through. That means it's vented. It just isn't as efficient as it could be.
And no, not all rotors are vented. There are plenty of rear rotors out there that are just one solid disc.
For the fade, did you have the same pads for both times and change only the rotors?
Want better brakes, get bigger brakes.
Many aftermarket companies use really cheap chinese made rotors, then add the bling bling.
I have noticed a difference with a decent pad, slotted rotors and stainless lines. I suppose it's kind of worth it. Unless the rotors are of the best quality, I would not get cross drilled.
I replaced my Montes with regular old rotors and pads. I'm happy. And have a few bucks for beer on St. Patty's day.
Pads were the same. As for Big brake upgrade they talked extensively on Sport compact revolution. There is some loos in power with a big brake upgrade. (they did a dyno to prove it) They also showed because you had more surface area you had less brake fade the stopping distance inrease but they said it was not enough to warrant it for a daily driven street car.
Every little bit helps. ONe thing i will ask is people talk about braking but how often do most people change their rear drums on their cars. I bet not as often as the do with their front i know the front does most of the braking. I am guilty of not changing my rear drums in a long time. I need to get them change so badly now.
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
I personally think the suspension is a big player in braking. My brakes sucked right after i got the car, so i changed the rotors and got some ceramic pads. Braking got better, and after lowering the car etc, braking is so much better. I've been thinking about some slotten Brembo's though, how well do they work with Cermaic pads? They're Morse Ceramics I got at Autozone. I think SS brake lines would help my pedal feel too.
Mylife75 (ajose) wrote:Pads were the same. As for Big brake upgrade they talked extensively on Sport compact revolution. There is some loos in power with a big brake upgrade. (they did a dyno to prove it) They also showed because you had more surface area you had less brake fade the stopping distance inrease but they said it was not enough to warrant it for a daily driven street car.
Every little bit helps. ONe thing i will ask is people talk about braking but how often do most people change their rear drums on their cars. I bet not as often as the do with their front i know the front does most of the braking. I am guilty of not changing my rear drums in a long time. I need to get them change so badly now.
Good show.
You should qualify that it was an RSX which has far better brakes than a J from factory. I recal a loss of 10hp. They did put huge rotors on. I think they were 13's or 14's. A J with 12's up front makes the world of difference. I feel the 12 inch front brakes to be a perfect compromise for aggresive street driver and track use.
Also, in my experience, many completely ignore the rear drums. They must be adjusted and cleaned periodically. Not doing so reduces the life of the fronts. Much of the difference people notice after brake jobs is due to the drums actually working again.
Yep be if those who have not changed their rear drums in a long time change them time and have them serviced they would see such a great improvement in their braking. I know i would mine need to change so badly i don't think i have changed mine. i have had them readjusted but not replaced.
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
