Since I am getting my car back next week (minus paint) and while its off the road I wanted to pick up where I left off before my accident and that was the option of sway bars. I have read the faq numerous times and I have an ok understanding about them but I am torn on what the pros/cons of larger and shorter bars for front and rear. So I have a few questions that I hope you all can help address me with.
Right now my car has understeer too much for my liking. The rear end just likes to want to come out way too easy on hard cornering. Its not an uncontrollable oversteer but its definitely too much to my liking. I have found it to be easy to correct but I don't like the fact that its willing to step out so easy.
What I am looking for is something that will provide me with a fairly neutral setup, especially one that doesn't over-emphasize oversteer or understeer, though if I had to sacrifice one of the other I would greatly like to keep understeer nill and oversteer minimal.
This leads me to what I am torn at. What are the benefits of going with larger bars compared to smaller bars? Would I be better off with only a rear sway bar since my car doesn't have a front one at all or since I am purchasing a rear sway bar is it a wise investment to add a front sway bar as well? I know a number of companies sell combo's but is that the best route to choose or would I be better off mix and matching different front and rear sways?
I am really torn on what route to take. I know what I want to eliminate and I know that I want to try to maintain as neutral of a ride as possible but just haven't dipped in the area to know whats the best route to take. Any and all help would be appreciated guys.
Proud member of
JBOK (J-bodies of Kentucky)
If you want a neutral setup, purchase a combo that has the rear bar just a few mm larger than the front.
I would reccomend the 22mm from the factory FE2 suspensions and the addco 25.4mm for the rear.
I personally went with both addco's and added a tie bar to the rear to get the car back to neutral.
I thought you should have the front bar a little bigger for a neutral setup?
2012 HD VRSCF
2010 Ford Explorer
2006 Ford Ranger
2004 Chevy Cavalier
rear bar a little bigger.
Our cars (lot of econo cars built now aways) have natural understeer.
So either the FE0/1 18mm and 22mm rear
Or FE2 22mm front 25.4 mm rear
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
So I will be good with a 24mm front(stock) and the 25.4mm Addco rear then? Sweet.
2012 HD VRSCF
2010 Ford Explorer
2006 Ford Ranger
2004 Chevy Cavalier
Zach, I thought you said you had understeer with your rear tie bar?? This was awhile back if I recall.
so if i have the fe1 with the 18mm front, ill be all good if i go with a 22mm rear correct?
nwcavi wrote:so if i have the fe1 with the 18mm front, ill be all good if i go with a 22mm rear correct?
I had the FE1 with the 1 inch addco in the rear, on agx's at 2 in front and 6 in the rear at stock height and I had a teeny tiny insy bit of oversteer.
I've recently lowered the car and now I don't know what it's going to be like.
-Chris
I believe I have the FE1 bar up front, and the Addco 1" out back and with a 1.8" drop I get pretty good handling. I ordered the Addco 1" for the front so we'll see how things work out.
I have the stock 22mm up front with poly endlinks, and the 25.4 Addco in the rear! I love it! However with winter tires on I have a ton of oversteer.
Buddy has the stock 24mm and the same setup as me, not much of a difference either.
Jason wrote:Zach, I thought you said you had understeer with your rear tie bar?? This was awhile back if I recall.
I was using an 18mm front and addco 25.4mm WITH the tie bar, and it added a considerable amount of oversteer. When I replaced the 18mm with the addco it made the car neutral.
I wasy probably trying to point out that the tie bar adds a considerable amount of stiffness to the rear sway bar (thus, a significant amount of oversteer).
well my setup will be
18mm front with poly bushings
22mm progress rear
tein basics
freedom design front strut bar
rksport rear strut bar
all of that is on my car now minus the 22mm progress rear which i ordered the other day...we will see how it balances things out
ALl good.
That progress bar is the only one I've not tryed out.
Well, that and the elusive 1 inch Helwig rear.
Let us know how it works out.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
Quote:
Right now my car has understeer too much for my liking. The rear end just likes to want to come out way too easy on hard cornering. Its not an uncontrollable oversteer but its definitely too much to my liking
If you are oversteering with a stock setup you need to get on the gas a little through the corner to shift more weight to your rear tires. This will probably result in a little bit of understeer. Oversteer/understeer is largely affected by driving habits/styles. You should have a bigger bar in the back as already stated to even things out though. And no brakes on corners and you will be good.
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Dennis Rolston wrote:Quote:
Right now my car has understeer too much for my liking. The rear end just likes to want to come out way too easy on hard cornering. Its not an uncontrollable oversteer but its definitely too much to my liking
If you are oversteering with a stock setup you need to get on the gas a little through the corner to shift more weight to your rear tires. This will probably result in a little bit of understeer. Oversteer/understeer is largely affected by driving habits/styles. You should have a bigger bar in the back as already stated to even things out though. And no brakes on corners and you will be good.
I'm not running a stock setup. I have the Gravana's and OEM Front STB, and RSM rear stb.
Proud member of
JBOK (J-bodies of Kentucky)
My Setup is stock FE2 front sway bar (22mm) and a 19mm hellwig rear sway bar. Only thing I can say is feels like I'm riding on rails.
My 2 bits,
Dennis Rolston wrote:my bad...its not stock....well the answer is still more gas. Since we dont have to worry about throttle oversteer gas after apex shouldnt really cause oversteer.
actually the answer may not just be the gas. It may be a problem with braking. If you trail brake to hard you can be putting too much weight on the front and when you go to turn the rear will kick out. hammering on the gas in that situation will not solve the problem.
Your also assuming a perfect curved apex.
Different turns require different methods, how much brake, how much gas, and how much trailbraking is necessary if at all. You don't always want to mash on the gas after the apex. many times you'll induce a LOT of wheelspin if you don't gradually apply the power, thus not going anywhere at all.
If it IS in fact a driving error, then the entry is too deep and the transition from braking to turning is too abrupt and causing the oversteer. I don't think this is the case as he's saying its not to much that he can't correct it.
The question was what can help him achieve a nuetral setup. There's no need to talk about driving mechanics here. Especially ones that don't explain the whole picture.
-Chris
...wait, wait. I recently heard a slightly larger bar should be used up front, as the engine compartment (obviously) weighs more, thus swaying more? but some say, a slightly larger rear bar is better...hmm, confusing. Ive read the faq, asked members, and heard a bunch o different stuff.
guess there is no deifnite better or more neutral setup..wish there was, as Im buying front and rear bars soon, and better struts n springs, as well as still gonna run my current subframe brace and tower braces.
...don't hate!.. respect people that have talent, even if it is in something you don't like or understand.
my last post was a little confusing on second read...revision in caps lock
Dennis Rolston wrote:It all comes down to this
want less oversteer/more understeer: bigger front or smaller rear bar THAN EXISTING BARS
Want less understeer/more oversteer: Smaller front or bigger rearTHAN EXISTING BARS
This is relative to what you have now. Im talking about tuning the handling from what you have now. usually you want to increase the bar size on the end you need it to increase roll stiffness rather than decrease the opposite side. So if you understeer(front slides) get a bigger rear bar. If you oversteer(rear slides) get a bigger front bar. or change the bars effective ratio by moving end link mounts...most people here should not worry about that.
The best place to check what your car does is probably a skid pad because it eliminates the variables of driver error, transitions from braking to gas, and corner differences.
02 LS Sport
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2135396
68 Firebird
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2135556
56 GMC
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2135587
66 Suburban
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2135589
