just need some opinions and possible past experiences. the panhard will likely be donated by an olds. or i'll get an adjustable piece from summit. if i go with the watts link it will be with 2 threaded bars with rod ends (+/- 1" ) and the upper ends will be on mounts that will tie into another 2 points of a cage.
i will also be welding in a stabilizer, and may replace the curved axle with a 3" titanium tube while keeping the factory ends where the hub, shock mount exct. are located..
CAR GODS MADE THE 1.6 SOHC TO MAKE US 2.2 OHV GUYS FEEL BETTER.
I would never use a pan hard rod on anything.
Go with the watts link so you get perfect straight up and down lifting without side to side pull you get from a panhard rod.
Now, lets see who is confused and dosnt have a clue whats a watts link is.
I am all that is man
I know what the two pieces you're talking about do, and how they're used, but I have no clue why you are even considering adding them to a twist beam axle. This has been discussed several times within the last few months. There is no reason for it.
I think you would be wasting your time. Just buy some springs and struts.
Zach wrote:I think you would be wasting your time. Just buy some springs and struts.
Yep^
Panhard rod--- a big no-no
Also Watts linkage can be found on the PT cruiser's rear susp.
BTW James Cahill said it best.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Its not going to work. A twist beam axle does not need to be laterally located. It already is. If you have lateral movement in a twist beam axle, you have something wrong. The bushings are long enough to prevent enough deflection to even be noticable, and a much simpler way to do it (if you're that concerned about it) would be to replace the rubber bushings with metal (or even poly).
I'm not trying to shut down an idea here, I'm simply saying that there is no reason for it. I've studied performance suspension setups for quite some time now, so I'm speaking from experience (both on paper and in action).
Dennis Rolston wrote:try out a watts link and see how it works. Then rather than everyone saying I dont think that would work you could say I know it doesnt work because I tried it.....OR I know it works great because I tried it.
Yes Watts linkage is a better idea then the Panhard-rod. But it is not needed here.
The only thing you can are doing is adding more weight to the car. If you want to improve on the rear suspension architecture, try adapting a IRS. Either from a 91-02 Saturn S-series or a 99-05 N-body. Which both shares a tri-link IRS design.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Go read some suspension books, start with suspension engineering.
After you're all educated on the design of performance suspension engineering, try whatever you want. The J-bodies have been out for 10 year (in 3rd gen alone) and GM has been racing them for years, no watts links yet.
JUst bag it and throw sparks all down the road. THats very joyfull after a long hard day.
I am all that is man
thanks. i could say that at least 3 of the responses were quite helpful. but if everyone listened to the "waste of time" and "not worth it on a j body" then every cavalier / sunfire would be totally stock save for a koni yellow / eibach pro kit suspension, pacesetter header, and some poly bushings and end links.
mostly my concern was for the side to side movement of the rear axle. i noticed this when the car was new. it's not bad with snow tires (not noticible at all when driving within the law) but with S-03 potenza's or azenis tires any hard turn over 65 and the rear starts to squirm.
i'll get something figured out and see what happens in the spring.
^ You're looking for a tie bar:
Linky
I still don't understand why you think a panhard or watts is going to help you. If you're that concerned about side to side movement of the axle (which I can assure you is not the problem), replace the bushings with something less forgiving, such as steel, or even aluminum.
According to your reg, you don't have any suspension mods. Running a semi-sticky tire such as what you're talking about, will definetely bring out the weak points of a stock suspension. I think you should focus on sway bars before you go any further.
And no, not every J body would have the parts you listed. I built or modified every piece of my suspension to perform exactly how I wanted it, and thoughts of a panhard bar never even crossed my mind.
James Cahill wrote:I built or modified every piece of my suspension to perform exactly how I wanted it, and thoughts of a panhard bar never even crossed my mind.
Exactly. It seems you want to make a watts link because one doesn't exist for our cars, but I was saying that you would be wasting your time since lateral travel isn't a problem. Not to mention that you don't have any other suspension mods to compliment it.
If you were able to stop all side to side travel on a stock suspension I would think that the car would oversteer. A 3rd gen cavalier is never going to consistently win any races. You are much better off investing your time in money in readily available mods that already exist (ie. springs and shocks).
Got to have the bread before you spread the butter
