My 1985 Pontiac Sunbird SE 1.8 turbo car is having some transmission issues. (automatic)
I've just recently been getting it back in running order the last 3 months and has been sitting for rougly 2 years. I've been driving it off and on and has been a great performer until this weekend. As I got off the highway and turned on a side road the tranny started slipping while I started on an incline. I babied the car home and was able to slowly get the car up to 55mph and on slower roads closer to my home. Drive still engages and am able to drive the car however the it starts so slip at approximately 15mph and the rpms start to pick up. Once I ease off the pedal and then re-apply at a slow pace I can manage to get up to driving speed.
I checked the fluid level and it was low and I added more fluid yet I still have slippage. I took a look under the car and noticed minor leakage but did not find the source. Can someone possibly give me some ideas while I wait until next week when the car goes back to the shop?
1985 Sunbird Hatchback | 1991 Sunbird Coupe | 2002 Cavalier LS Sport
May be time for a new trans filter and gasket change.Low fluid would result in slippage.I would recom the above and add some lucas trans fix to the auto trans fluid,this in no way harm the trans but,will help on shifting and lube the insides.I would start with this and it should resolve the problem unless the insides of the trans need to be rebuilt.If u had no issues prior to having it sit it should not be a major problem.U prolly need to change the filter and gasket and fluid and should correct it.I hope this is useful and answers some of ur ?s and so forth.Ok
slipping is a result of burnt or worn clutches, sticking valves, hard/damaged seals, or broken hard parts. changing your filter and fluid will not put friction material onto the clutch plates, free up stuck valves, make seals soft again (i dont care what the bottle of aditive says, it doesnt fix seals, or at least just temporarily). do you see were im going with this??? and if changing the filter did fix the problem, it would have had to been plugged so bad to cause the problem, and its going to leave you stranded.
it sounds like the tranny is worn out and in need of an overhaul. seals deteriorate with age and get hard. if you have a slightly burnt smell in the oil, your clutches have slipped enough to burn, cauing the smell. this will only get worse as time goes. you best bet is to have it overhauled.
You might also consider swapping it with a good used transmission. they made millions of these cars, and even more cars that use the same TH125C transmission.
Pull-A-Part charges like $60 for used transmissions, depending on where you live.
A good trans shop may overhaul it for a few hundred bucks as well. $400 was a quote I heard a few years back.
Good luck!
wow, i wanna know were you live. the last 125 we got used was $300 (our cost) and we can build them for just over $1000 (with new converter) not including install. mind you this is in canadian funds.
the tranny in a 1.6/1.8/2.0 ohc is a specific bellhousing bolt pattern. they were only used in j-bodies, grand ams, and lemans. there arent as many out there as you would think for this motor. couple that with the fact that the turbo tranny is different again, finding a good used one gets a bit interesting
Whats very interesting is once it is up to driving speed it gives me no problems. There is a slight odor coming from the engine bay but I contribute that to the bad exhaust manifold that they dont make anymore. I am hoping that something minor is causing the problem. If its going to cost more than $500 to fix I am going to scrap the engine/transmission altogether because I had planned on doing a swap when I bought the car. I'll know whats up in a few days.
1985 Sunbird Hatchback | 1991 Sunbird Coupe | 2002 Cavalier LS Sport
sharkey-
I just moved to Peoria, Illinois from southern Indiana. Parts were cheap, but you had to pull it yourself. They'd provide the cranes, etc but it was still a hassle.
http://libertypullapart.com/
http://libertypullapart.com/price%20List.htm
_____________
Nomad- Here's a few just for the heck of it.
1990
Transmission
Pontiac Sunbird 127,000 6823
$75 Randy's Auto Parts and Towing USA-WA(Okanogan) E-mail 1-800-553-4466
1984
Transmission
Buick Skyhawk FWD,4-122 41,000 5270 $75 Randy's Auto Parts and Towing USA-WA(Okanogan) E-mail 1-800-553-4466 119
1991
Transmission
Pontiac Sunbird 165,000 6884 $75 Randy's Auto Parts and Towing USA-WA(Okanogan) E-mail 1-800-553-4466
1984
Transmission
Pontiac Sunbird 1.8,AUTO 164,000 20516 $Call Pasco Auto Wrecking USA-WA(Pasco) E-mail 800-572-9624
1986
Transmission
Buick Skyhawk 3-85,1.8EFI,F-AT HD 132,276 16546 $100 AAA Auto Wrecking USA-WA(Kent) E-mail 1-800-404-1552
It's a TH-125C. they're pretty much junk. There are many things that could be wrong but they pretty much start slipping even under stock power by 100k miles as a rule. Now would be a great time to do a 5 speed swap to an HM-282. I was in this exact same situation as you before.
i would actualy say the 125 is a pretty goos tranny compared to all of gm's other fwd junk (mainly the 440t4/4t60e). the 125 will take a beating, but there are some flaws in it. built properly with high enrgy frictions, shift improver/problem fix kit, planets with steel washers, they will take some good power.
Daryl Scott wrote:Nomad- Here's a few just for the heck of it.
1990
Transmission
Pontiac Sunbird 127,000 6823
$75 Randy's Auto Parts and Towing USA-WA(Okanogan) E-mail 1-800-553-4466
1984
Transmission
Buick Skyhawk FWD,4-122 41,000 5270 $75 Randy's Auto Parts and Towing USA-WA(Okanogan) E-mail 1-800-553-4466 119
1991
Transmission
Pontiac Sunbird 165,000 6884 $75 Randy's Auto Parts and Towing USA-WA(Okanogan) E-mail 1-800-553-4466
1984
Transmission
Pontiac Sunbird 1.8,AUTO 164,000 20516 $Call Pasco Auto Wrecking USA-WA(Pasco) E-mail 800-572-9624
1986
Transmission
Buick Skyhawk 3-85,1.8EFI,F-AT HD 132,276 16546 $100 AAA Auto Wrecking USA-WA(Kent) E-mail 1-800-404-1552
Thats awesome Daryl, are those all TH-125C transmissions? If any one of those are still working, those would get me by for now.
Protonus, I'll keep the HM-282 in mind but not my main focus. I am installing a 5spd manual later down the road.
I'll be getting the word either tomorrow or Tuesday on the problem. Thanks guys.
1985 Sunbird Hatchback | 1991 Sunbird Coupe | 2002 Cavalier LS Sport
^^^ TH125C's are really common as stated just make sure you get one off a 2.0 or a 1.8 because the bell housing is different (Starter is on the back on 2.0's)
Getting the auto trans out of the car and such is the hardest part of a 5 speed conversion pretty much.. which is why I suggested it now.
I should have clarified my original statement, modifed the TH-125C isn't so bad. But it's quite weak stock.
if you are getting a used tranny, you need to make sure its from a turbo car. the 125c for the n/a 1.8/2.0l is a typical 4 cyl tranny. the 125c for the turbo cars is the same as a v6. it has more clutches in the clutchpacks and it has a torqueconverter specific to the turbo motor. putting a non turbo tranny in a turbo car is like putting a 4 cyl tranny with a modded v6.
sharkey wrote:if you are getting a used tranny, you need to make sure its from a turbo car. the 125c for the n/a 1.8/2.0l is a typical 4 cyl tranny. the 125c for the turbo cars is the same as a v6. it has more clutches in the clutchpacks and it has a torqueconverter specific to the turbo motor. putting a non turbo tranny in a turbo car is like putting a 4 cyl tranny with a modded v6.
Yes DO make sure it's the Turbo TH125C. IIRC the gear ratios AND the final drive are different. I know AT LEAST the final drive is. I can double check the gear ratios later. I'm fairly certain it differs from teh v6 too. I know the HM282's final drive and gear ratios are different vs the v6 version
The word is.. rebuild... so I am considering on selling the engine (almost 82k), engine parts, ECU, wiring harness, dash guages, (dash is no good) and a lot of other stuff but I not selling the entire car. This Summer I will most likely begin tearing things out.
1985 Sunbird Hatchback | 1991 Sunbird Coupe | 2002 Cavalier LS Sport
Are you parting the car out because you'll make more money than selling it outright? If you're giving up on the car, why not post an ad and sell it to someone who might want to keep it on the road?
Is there structural rust / damage beyond repair or something?
Daryl Scott wrote:Are you parting the car out because you'll make more money than selling it outright? If you're giving up on the car, why not post an ad and sell it to someone who might want to keep it on the road?
Is there structural rust / damage beyond repair or something?
Daryl I am keeping the car, I've just had another plan with the car and the money is better spent on going towards the setup I intended on going with. Basically fixing the tranny that is in there doesn't justify the cost if I am going to rip it out in the near future. The engine is in great shape, as a matter of fact I just did an emissions diagnostic on it and here are the results..
COMPRESSION CYLINDER: (1) 120 (2) 120 (3) 120 (4) 110
CYLINDER LEAK DOWN: (1) 40% (2) 40% ( 3) 38% (4) 40% PAST THE RINGS
When I did the test they noted the cat was also going bad. Today I hopped in the car to run out to the wreckers and now my starter is going. So I just plan on ripping the stuff out, sell what I can and prep the body for the project. I am not really trying to make a buck.. More or less just want to at least see if I can get the parts in peoples hands if they are in need of any of them..
1985 Sunbird Hatchback | 1991 Sunbird Coupe | 2002 Cavalier LS Sport
Ah, my bad. I thought you were going to part the entire car out...
What motor / trans are you planning to drop in there? Hopefully another turbo motor
If you're looking for a 125 trans from a turbo Sunbird the code on the tag will be PPC. I don't know if the turbo Skyhawks use the same code but they might. There's so few turbo Hawks around (unless you look in Motorman377's driveway) you'll probably never run across one anyway.
The turbo Sunbird torque convetor is 2900 stall speed. There is a sticker on it that says "FAAB" I believe. I just had mine out Saturday and I forgot already! The gear ratios in the tranny are the same as any 2.0 Sunbird but the final drive ratio is 3.18.
Good luck,
Tony
Tony
1987 Sunbird GT turbo convert
Ported intake, Fiero 53 MM TB, 52 lb inj, ported and flowed head, tube header, Mitsu TD06, ARP rod
bolts/head studs, adj cam sprocket, 4" x 12" x 31" FMIC, Paxton AFPR, modified 125 trans/LSD
unit/3.42's, custom chip tuning, Alky Control Methanol injection
13.61 ET at 101.44 mph, 262 WHP/350WTQ
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP roadster, 2.0 turbo w/GMPP exh, CAI and turbo upgrade, 290 hp/325 ft lbs
1969 Olds 442 convert
400 Eng, 200-4R trans, 3.73 posi, power everything, OAI
Daryl Scott wrote:What motor / trans are you planning to drop in there? Hopefully another turbo motor
I'm upgrading the engine to current jbody internals. And yes, I wouldn't allow myself to not drop another turbo in it. When this all takes place I will be sure to post here.
I thought I'd also comment on the starter placement, the GM engineers should be shot. Mine is starting to go out and it looks like a big pain in my arse to replace it. By the way, the transmission seems to be doing okay when I shift it manually from First to Drive. I'll drive it like this until the car dies. The stock motor looks like crap, cant wait till I get the the purty lightweight aluminum engine slapped in there..
1985 Sunbird Hatchback | 1991 Sunbird Coupe | 2002 Cavalier LS Sport
Nomad wrote:I'm upgrading the engine to current jbody internals. And yes, I wouldn't allow myself to not drop another turbo in it. When this all takes place I will be sure to post here.
I thought I'd also comment on the starter placement, the GM engineers should be shot. Mine is starting to go out and it looks like a big pain in my arse to replace it. By the way, the transmission seems to be doing okay when I shift it manually from First to Drive. I'll drive it like this until the car dies. The stock motor looks like crap, cant wait till I get the the purty lightweight aluminum engine slapped in there..
Huh? current J-body internals in your 1.8/2.0???
WTF are you talking about?
ARe you meaning you're going to put an ecotec in your car instead of a 1.8/2.0? You know it won't bolt up right?
AS for starter placement, that's funny you don't like it. Be glad where it is. It's why it lasts forever. Most of GM's car had the starter on the front, sure, slightly easier to change but it gets baked by the exhaust manifold! Changing the starter is a LOT easier on a 5 speed car too... that auto trans is just a PITA all around. The 5 speed trans doesn't wrap around the back of the motor like that.
What seems to be the problem man? People have choices on what they do to their car. Its not up to other people. If that was the case we'd be using or cars to purposely kill other people and ram our cars into each other.
And it almost seems like this place hasn't changed. Always someone complaining and causing a huge hissy fit. Anyhow I will go enjoy what I am doing. Later.
1985 Sunbird Hatchback | 1991 Sunbird Coupe | 2002 Cavalier LS Sport
Nomad wrote:What seems to be the problem man? People have choices on what they do to their car. Its not up to other people. If that was the case we'd be using or cars to purposely kill other people and ram our cars into each other.
And it almost seems like this place hasn't changed. Always someone complaining and causing a huge hissy fit. Anyhow I will go enjoy what I am doing. Later.
The problem is your post made no sense, if you want people to help you, make sure your posts are clear. Did you even read what I wrote? I wasn't being pissy, I was pointing out that I had no idea what on earth you were talking about, and why the starter is a GOOD THING where it is, and why it would be BAD if it was in a different spot.
Again, What are you talking about? What is "current j-body internals". What are you reffering too?!
I'm not complainging I'm trying to help you but I can't help you if your posts aren't clear. The only hissy fit so far here is from you.
Protonus, I was being vague because I really didn't have a whole lot of time to post and excuse me for getting wound up.. Its very hard to sense tone of voice over the internet. It just seemed like you were slamming me. As far as the powerplant goes, yes you're right it won't bolt right up but with fabrication and patience everything is possible.
My lack of patience with my car has caused me to get irritated and with the starter being blocked by a bunch of crap. Today I looked at my 5sp Sunbird and saw how much easier it is to get to compared to my automatic. A local shop quoted me about $225 for installation and that doesn't even cover the cost of the starter. Its just merly fustration that has put me in a bad mood about this car and thats why I want everything replaced.
For time, money and enjoyment upgrading everything seems to be the simple answer. For example my exhaust manifold needs replacement and that part is not even being made anymore. What else is the same way? So therefor getting a newer engine and abundance of parts its just logical to get new stuff. Anyhow I hope you understand now where I am coming from..
1985 Sunbird Hatchback | 1991 Sunbird Coupe | 2002 Cavalier LS Sport
