In a most unusual post I am hoping to get a few pointers from the folks that have upgraded their 1st gen brakes to the 2nd or 3rd gen sets.
When I got the 94 Sedan I had planned to share the 13" wheels on it that I have quite a large inventory of. Being the old school fool that I am - I grew up on 13's and still enjoy them today - perhaps even more so now because everyone else runs much bigger stuff and these just stand out - even if to some folks in a horrible way....Hahaa Of course with the switch over I can still run larger wheels if I desire and probably will run some 14's too , but want the option to run 13's too.
That said , I finally managed to pick up the lower control arms at my local Pick - N - Save yesterday along with the 13' "D hole" wheels off the '86 hatchback ( like I needed another set?) - and the rotors , calipers and brake lines too. (The brake lines and pads looked just like new!) The Spindles and hubs are still attached to those lower control arms so I think I've probably got just about everything I could possibly need to the reverse swap.
So what I'd like to know is what was involved in the upgrade swap? Obviously the rotors ,calipers and pads have to go. I'm guessing the spindle doesn't allow the smaller calipers to bolt up. How about the hubs and drive shafts? Are the splines different? I already know this will wipe out my ABS on the Sedan but it is already Kaput and quite useless so it isn't hurting anything. I am curious if the stock drive shafts will have any problems since they have the teeth for the ABS and the earlier spindles weren't designed for that
I've got a head gasket leaking on the Sedan and figured it would be a nice time to do the swap while I have it down for repairs. Presently finishing up the Ranger and working on opening up the fence with some gates to park the vehicles in the back yard. I am going to build a couple of country boy carports using tarps as covers and park the truck and Sunbird / Wagon back there and keep a lot of the sun/rain off them. Ever have the feeling you should have done something many years ago? Yeah....Hahaa...this is one of those for me!!
Thanks in advance for the information!! I honestly had no idea when I wound up with the Sedan I had a Phase 2 with the upgrade. The ole Sedan has turned into a big learning experience for me - and I've really enjoyed it.
But you can't beat the 1st Gens!!
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Hi Orlen-
Whenever I tear into brakes, I usually invest in the brass plugs to seal off the lines so they don't bleed out while I am taking my time... If I remember right, rebuilt calipers for the first gen front brakes were like $15 a side last time I bought them. I am assuming you checked the bushings and everything is good there. Your axle nuts should be 29mm or 30mm. Not sure on the splines but I seem to remember the hubs being interchangeable for gens 1 and 2. Looks like you steered clear of the earlier cars (82-84) to avoid my pitfall from earlier this year
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Stuff that comes to mind:
New copper gaskets for brake lines.
Doing axle seals at the same time? Make a home depot tool
How are the cv axle boots?
New Cotter Pins?
New grease nipples on ball joints?
Get a couple of spare strut/spindle bolts - just in case
Mini sledge was my best friend...
I think that is it for random thoughts.
Gates look good. You are looking trimmed up as well Orlen. Nice job on keeping it going with the fitness stuff!
Cars look great.
You might want to scan your local CL for portable car ports that may need a new covering. Sometimes people just want to get rid of the frames. You could then cover it with tarps. If your lucky you might even find a complete unit for a fraction of new.
You need calipers, spindles, rotors, and brake pads.
I thought 13in rims cleared the 92-94 brakes? I know 14in rims do.
On the inside my car looks like a fighter jet.
Orlen,
If you are considering storing any of your vehicles over top of soil for any amount of time, you'd be better off with the tarps underneath the cars than over top of them. Soil is constantly emitting moisture upward - even when it isn't being rained directly on.
The tarp over top of the car trap this moisture underneath it and becomes a low pressure steamer of sorts.
Another option is putting aggregate under your car to provide water drainage, but I'd go with pea gravel rather than limestone as limestone is extremely acidic !
The reason I know this is because the VW Beetle I'm restoring only sat on top of grass for six months and aeverything that faced downward was covered in surface rust.
You be better off with a tarp underneath your car and a breathable car cover over top if you are planning any type of long-term storage.
~ Mike ~
Thanks Rob!!
Just the information I was in need of. With yours and Paul's list I ought to have this this little project in good shape!!
Mike I sure am GRATEFUL you popped in with your information! That makes perfectly good sence to me too! This issue has become front and center for me since I've been doing a lot of painting on my vehicles! Unfortunately the Pontiac has had the same experience your Beetle has had this year while I've been busy on the Ranger - so I won't be surprised by what awaits me the next time I get to crawl under it. Tarps underneath are a very easy simple solution and I'll be working on that tomorrow on my extra day off. I have a breathable cover on the Pontiac and a tarp over that to keep the heavy rains from permeating the car cover and soaking the inner layers. Haven't been able to get the tarp for the wagon yet.
As soon as I can afford the materials I'll be building carport frames and covering them with tarps keeping most of the rain off them. I'll keep the car covers on them to try and keep them clean and now with this information I'll also keep a tarp underneath too. Doesn't do any good to put out all the effort out - just to have rust come right back at you and create lots more work. I know rust never sleeps, but I can do some things to keep it from running like a madman too!!
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Good day Orien,
You have two beautiful first Gen , the 2 doors have a fantastic front end ! It is rare in my area actualy very very rare!
Have a good week,
Pierre
Thanks Pierre!!
Can't say they are top quality - but I sure have enjoyed the time I have had on them. I've learned a whole lot in the process too!
One of the BIG things I cannot under state is if you are considering getting any kind of vehicle to fix up and keep long term , the very 1st consideration should be protection of the vehicle itself. It is pointless to acquire a "keeper" and leave it in the elements to deteriorate. That being said - I am STILL learning the ways to accomplish this.
Mike I'd like you to know I heard your warnings and promptly took action today. Glanced underneath the Sunbird today and at first blush things appear in pretty good shape underneath. I happen to had a couple of old small tarps in the shed and figured I'd use them temporarily until I can get better ones in the near future. I have to report this is easy to do, cheap , and actually look pretty good in the end.
Instead of using big nails for staking the tarps down I simply bought some bolts and washers. These sell for $2.19/lb. at our local Tractor Supply and 8 bolts & washers cost me less than $5! They worked very well too!
I used some old scraps to make a riser on top of the roof rack to allow air to flow on the top of the wagon....(under the car cover)
...and the results
The Sunbird is beginning to remind me of a Mummy!!
Some of that 13" wheel inventory I was talking about.....Hahaa....Yea, I'm a J-Body nut.
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The bearings are the same and will bolt right up. There shouldn't be an issue with the ABS rings, since the smaller brakes were used up through 91 and ABS was an option at that point. The axles splines are all the same.
Thanks for the information James!!
GM has a reputation for being anything but consistent so I was concerned about those splines and rings! I might get by without a complete redesign of the front end after all ....Hahaaa!!
I believe I'll enjoy this little journey
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Good job, Orlen !
I really love our old 1st gens and am pleased when I see someone taking steps to preserve and protect them !
Those steps will go far in protecting your investments.
I knew if anyone would figure a way to do it inexpensively, but still the right way, it would be you.
~ Mike ~
mike is absolutely rght about parking your car on bare ground or even worse tall grass. it can actually flash rust overnight. it kills me when i see a car for sale on someones front lawn for days on end. the sellers not realizing that they are ruining the undercarriage of the car and diminishing the value by the hour. one of the biggest facters i consider when buying a vehicle is where it was kept. they say a wooden floor like in a barn is best because the wood actually absorbs the moisture but i dont really know if thats true or just a fable. anyone else have an opinion one tihis?
My theory of the wooden floor thing is it is way off the ground and there is a huge air barrier between the dirt and the wooden floor the tires are on.
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