I haven't had internet for a couple of years now so I'm trying to remember the research I DID do on this prior to the introduction on the LFX. It's a 60 degree block designed by Holden so I know it should mate up to an Eco tranny and if I remember right for a manual it was best to mate to a 9.3 OR 9.5 Saab 6 speed, I don't remember now. I planned on just doing another 3800 sc swap but I ran across a Fiero site that someone was attempting this swap but later backed out after buying the block and tranny. I know the wiring is probably a nightmare to most but as an electrician I can read wiring diagrams but knowing what I can make work with what systems will be a trial and error. I'm also aware of stand alone units so maybe thats an options as well. Looking for info, input,... I know there are a ton of much, MUCH cheaper options out there but I'm picky and anal about my toys and want to try something different. This will not be a quick swap by any means but I already have a 96 coupe shell that I bought dirt cheap with front end damage. Looking to get the new inner front clip this spring and want to go from there. Some concerns I do have is height clearance of the DOHC block. I'll continue my research on the V6, Grand Am, Fiero,... forums but I have an idea and want to see us do it. $ is $ and you make it to spend it, cant take it with you so concerns of cash do not need to be brought up. Thanks in advance to all.
People can't learn common sense. You're born with it. Either you have it or you just don't!
I was wrong on the bolt pattern for the block. It's not an Eco design but a GM global design. Some just for RWD, others only FWD, and some yet a dual pattern. I need to do a little more research on the blocks but a 07-08 Saab 9.3 F40 has been proven to bolt up with an 8 bolt flywheel from the 2.8L. I need to see what other manual options there are out there with models/years. I've also noticed that a FWD and RWD block have different oil pans, valve covers, and intake setups so I will need to look into that as well. I'm assuming something from a FWD will be a smarter choice (Saturn, Caddy, Traverse,...). Looking to do away with the drive-by-wire setup and possibly locking the VVT, just dont know if I'll have to look into a crank trigger like the 2.4L Eco/hybrid setup I briefly remember seeing a few years ago. Already pulling my hair out since I was smart enough to save old links of research I HAVE done but most are outdated and others have some great info but with links also not found when clicked upon.
People can't learn common sense. You're born with it. Either you have it or you just don't!
Why the lfx? If I'm correct that's the engine with the head and exhaust manifold all in one. So many people attempted this swap and saw it was not worth the headache. You would probably be better off with the lx9 3500 or the 3900 as both are smaller and have proven to make a ton of power and are easier to install also have a good amount of aftermarket parts. Dohc engines take up a lot of space.
On the inside my car looks like a fighter jet.
Rob Dotterer wrote:Why the lfx? If I'm correct that's the engine with the head and exhaust manifold all in one. So many people attempted this swap and saw it was not worth the headache. You would probably be better off with the lx9 3500 or the 3900 as both are smaller and have proven to make a ton of power and are easier to install also have a good amount of aftermarket parts. Dohc engines take up a lot of space.
I love my LFX in my camaro, but do what Rob said.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
I was reading this, saying to my self. What engine is the lfx? Lol then mike chimed in and i realized we are talking about the direct injected 3.6l v6. Witch is very impressive in stock form at over 300hp and light. Im not sure on what aftermarket is avalible tho for that engine. You do have options of hard welding and getting your stock cams reground if no body makes blanks exc. I am interested to see how this goes and i hope you complete it. Gets old reading threads that are awsome builds and it just dies with no awnser or resalts. Good luck to ya man hope you get her done!
I Love My J ♡
I don't know why you would lock up the VVT after going through all of the trouble of doing such a swap, but I would defintely say stick with the LLT. The F40 would be my transmission of choice for this swap.
I would also look at the Megasquirt MS3X to control this. You could eliminate the drive-by-wire but still retain the VVT. Trying to install such a newer engine into an older car isn't just about being alble to read wiring diagrams, but about the compatibility of the electronics themselves. You're looking at swapping in a GMLAN based system to a Class 2 serial data system. They are not compatible. The ECM is going to be looking for responses from components of the car that aren't there. Unless you want to attempt wiring your car up entirely as a newer car, with all the newer accessories, it's going to be a nightmare.
A nightmare is an understatement but I'm still trying to find specs on the engine. After an image search I've seen the differences in the RWD and FWD setups as far as a 1 serpentine FWD setup vs the 2 on the RWD. I've also seen the accessory placement as far as the A/C comp. and the alternator as well as a few different setups for the tensioner. Sadly i don't know which images match which makes/models at this time. It's good to know about the Megasquirt setup and I had the guy that installed my dish satellite mention it. Sounds like a better way to go if I can keep the VVT vs. locking the cams since these produce such great torque throughout most of the powerband. I want to find info on the intake setups as well for height clearances since the Js don't have nearly as tall of an engine bay as the newer vehicles, even though others have done the 3800 sc and northstar swaps so it may not be an issue like I'm thinking. If anyone knows any engine dimensions and make make/model they pertain to I'd greatly appreciate the info. Also I'd like to go with the paper oil filter since one image I seen had an old can filter (very surprised) that looked like I'd be a pain to change being close to the radiator. I'll look into what I can pull up on FWD versions for 06+ and start to go from there.
People can't learn common sense. You're born with it. Either you have it or you just don't!
Looking at the LLT vs LY7 engine, I think you may have to swap the intake manifold from the LY7 found in the mid-sized cars to fit in a J. The LLT has a pretty tall intake manifold, but the accessory setups between the two engines is identical, and it's essentially the same engine, so you should be able to swap it. I haven't seen the intake side of the heads though, so I'm not sure if there is any difference there.
Sadly none of the local yards what to help me and neither do eBay sellers for finding dimensions so I'm still at a standstill. I will have to look into the LY7 intake mani. It sucks most of my family have new Fords but I do have a great uncle with a new Lacrosse so maybe I'll have to go harass him one of these days after this cold snap continues through in west Michigan. I believe I'm stuck with the can style oil filter as well but upon closer inspection it shouldn't interfere with the radiator like I was thinking previously. The exhaust manifold sticks out just a little farther so that may be a new clearance issue. I was just thinking one of the apprentices I was working with, his fiance, has a Gen 7 Malibu LTZ so if the LY7 and LLT are really similar maybe I can start with that and go from there. I know the LLT or LFX will be wider but I'll get a better idea then can confirm with the Lacrosse later. Can I get a link or can someone PM me with more info on the Megasquirt system? I'd look into it more but high wind and blowing snow make using satellite internet feel like dial-up and the weather will be like this for a couple days. Thanks.
People can't learn common sense. You're born with it. Either you have it or you just don't!
Awesome link. Just need to see what system I'd like to go with and all I would need to power the engine and what I would need to run the accessories, a cluster (probably homemade),... Cant find info on the LLT/LFX/LY7 intakes to see if they are swapable but looking at the gasket kits I'm going to have to say probably not. I need to get a HUGE complete list of factory GM part numbers for the heads, block, intakes,... I have a source linked in with GM and can download CADs with full dimensions so I can figure out overall block size and can maybe find out head intake port sizes if the intake mani is too tall or maybe see if I can swap an upper and leave the lower or vise versa to make something work to clear the hood if the clearance issue comes up.
People can't learn common sense. You're born with it. Either you have it or you just don't!
djfan88_mn wrote:Awesome link. Just need to see what system I'd like to go with and all I would need to power the engine and what I would need to run...a cluster (probably homemade)...
Click the link in my sig.
That's a beautiful cluster! If I wasn't laid off I'd be all over that even at $800 plus shipping. Out of curiousity since I'm just starting to get my head raped around the megasquirt system how would this be tied in? Am I still using my bcm or am I assuming I have a much larger wiring project than I'm currently thinking? I understand the megasquirt runs the engine but I still need to do the research on how to power everything else. Hell I might even try to be crazy and plum in A/C and stay with a full ls, well I guess lt/ltz nowaday setup.
People can't learn common sense. You're born with it. Either you have it or you just don't!
I Love My J ♡