I'd rather have the saab lk9 setup myself
"In Oldskool we trust"
Rick wrote:
If you look in the first picture, there is a lot of AWD cars and 4x4 trucks in the ditch too....
That just gives relevance to an old saying of mine: A hot car can't make-up for 'chit driving-skills!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Brian wrote:I guess the point I was going to make is that the Versa-trak AWD systems that GM used (and the ones that are the most viable for swapping into a Cavalier) don't operate like AWD does on a Subaru or an Evo. Versa-trak operates like a normal FWD vehicle until it detects wheel slippage in which case it sends power to the rear to add traction then biases the power left or right depending on which rear wheel is slipping or gripping. Its nothing like the full-time AWD you get on a Subaru.
So really its a pointless swap if youre doing it in the interest of being Johnny Racecar and trying to help your tack times or look like a badass doing AWD launches. For that to work you would have to make some modifications to rear diff mechanism to essentially lock it in all of the time, and without looking at one torn apart its really a crap-shoot as to whether it can be done. I've seen it done with CRV rear diffs in AWD swapped Civic's, but the CRV diff uses a viscous lock sort of like a Limited Slip Differential. As far as I can tell Versa-trak uses some electronically controlled Gerotor pumps to side shift fluid in the diff, which somehow locks and biases the axles.
I could see a purpose if youre doing it purely in the interest of having traction in the winter, but do you really love your Cavalier enough to rip everything apart and spend $10k to be moderately better in the snow in a car with terrible ground clearance.
So I refer back to my previous statement: Whats everyone's obsession with AWD?
It's like an evil creature in a bad horror-film... Somehow, despite initial response & all logical conjecture, it became hugely popular & it keeps returning in sequels--Ad-nausem.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Typical of the elderly. Stuck in their old ways.
Care to say that louder, sonny...? My ears are still ringing from that Metallica concert I just attended!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Mr. Quick wrote:Brian wrote:Using an F40 you say? Let's collaborate on an AWD LS4 J-body.
Nah. I'll stick with a built and turbo'd 3400 thanks. 
AWD
TWIN TURBO LS4 Jbody????
Mr Quick, too bad you don't have more time on your hands, that sounds like it would be a great project to watch.... it defiantly made this thread more interesting....
2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires
2005 Mazda 3 GS Auto- Wifes car
2006 Cobalt SS/SC - Intake, 2.5" Exhaust, GMPP Brakes, Solid Mounts, Ported S/C - Sold
1991 GMC Sierra - Lifted on 38.5" Swampers, Too much to list off. For Sale
Nickelin Dimer wrote:Care to say that louder, sonny...? My ears are still ringing from that Metallica concert I just attended!
He returns! Haven't seen you in a while man. Can't believe you're not all over the 2 sweet ln2 builds going on right now
"In Oldskool we trust"
Why would you want an AWD car when you can buy a truck? For the amount of time, effort, and money spent converting a FWD car to AWD, you could easily buy a used pick-up.
Unless, of course, you're a weirdo who actually enjoys building things.
.
Nickelin Dimer wrote:Care to say that louder, sonny...? My ears are still ringing from that Metallica concert I just attended!
My bad my friend!
That was supposed to be directed at Mr. Quick. We have a running joke about him working on the R&D team that designed the Model A. Apparently I forgot to quote him.
But seriously, I saw Metallica this summer. They put on a pretty good show.
James Cahill wrote:Why would you want an AWD car when you can buy a truck? For the amount of time, effort, and money spent converting a FWD car to AWD, you could easily buy a used pick-up.
Unless, of course, you're a weirdo who actually enjoys building things.
.
And I completely agree with being a weirdo who likes to build things but I'd say the majority of the people asking about AWD fall into the categoy of "If you have to ask, you shouldn't be doing it."
Mr. Quick wrote:The Versa Trak is not the system I have been looking at. I'm looking at a true AWD drivetrain built for performance.
Why? Because I'm a car enthusiast who loves making something far more than it used to be. It's the build and the pride of accomplishment that I enjoy, not just buying something anyone else can buy. But that's me.
I really wish I had the time to build it, as I've pretty much come up with the entire system design using an F40 6 speed manual, F46 transfer case, and a Haldex LSD rear diff (stay away from the electronic controlled version). The commonly available version of the transmission will bolt to the 2.2/2200OHV, 3100, 3400, 3500, and 3900 engines, or there is a version that bolts to a Saab 2.0 Ecotec, 2800DOHC V6, and 3600DOHC V6. Using purely off-the-shelf parts, the Saab 2.0, the 2800 and 3600, or 3500VVT and 3900 would be the simplest, as they have a flywheel for the F40. I have specs on a custom aluminum flywheel for the 3100 and 3400 which could be made pretty easy. The rear suspension could be used from a Saab AWD/XWD car without a lot of major modifications, or a few custom parts could be used to utilize some front end components from a J-body or N-body, adding custom caliper brackets for something like a Saturn caliper that would maintain the e-brake. A few structural support additions to stiffen the unibody would be part of the project as well. The exhaust tunnel may need modification to accomodate the driveshaft, but that wouldn't be a huge deal.
Overall, it could be done fairly easily with some pretty compatible parts. It would be unique, and I think it would be a fun build.
You forgot my current set up in that, 3800 F40. Some modifications are required to the engine bay to make the F40 fit and not hang below the subframe, but it's not that bad. The most difficult part is the mounts.
I have been considering doing AWD, entirely depends on how much traction the car gets after it's done.
James Cahill wrote:Why would you want an AWD car when you can buy a truck? For the amount of time, effort, and money spent converting a FWD car to AWD, you could easily buy a used pick-up.
Unless, of course, you're a weirdo who actually enjoys building things.
You should see my Sunfire
LS4 FTW!!!!!!!!! i hope somebody tries a ls4 soon but if not ill get to it sooner or later ill just buy another j when i get my own garage and make it happen
I Love My J ♡
Y3llowCav wrote:Nickelin Dimer wrote:Care to say that louder, sonny...? My ears are still ringing from that Metallica concert I just attended!
He returns! Haven't seen you in a while man. Can't believe you're not all over the 2 sweet ln2 builds going on right now
What builds? This is the first I'm hearing of them... But if they involve stroker cranks, then I've probably already had my influence on them!
Seriously, I could use a link to them to save time!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Brian wrote:Nickelin Dimer wrote:Care to say that louder, sonny...? My ears are still ringing from that Metallica concert I just attended!
My bad my friend!
That was supposed to be directed at Mr. Quick. We have a running joke about him working on the R&D team that designed the Model A. Apparently I forgot to quote him.
Hey, when I attended my high-school's associated career-center for automotive:
The wheel, tire & chassis guy was a former AMC NASCAR Pit-leader.
The Electrical instructor used to work for "Mr. Norm".
And we had one more instructor that was former on the Chrysler turbine-car project.
So don't joke about what old tech's have been part of... Just be glad they were around to impart their knowledge to you. However, I still could throttle my dad for following some outdated rule of re-using rod-bolts.... Guess that's what you get from a man that cut his teeth working on his personal MG-TD2/TF!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Mr. Quick didn't literally do R&D on the Model A. He would be at least 100 years old if so. It's just a joke between friends concerning his elder status to me. I have tons of respect for him.
Anyways, carry on with the shenanigans in here everyone. Haha
James Cahill wrote:Unless, of course, you're a weirdo who actually enjoys building things.
I resemble that remark.
I'm confused that you're a car enthusiast who isn't used to meeting people who build things just because.
Looking into this a bit further, It looks like the Saab transfer case would hang lower than the diff on the F40. I know with my F40 swap, I'm have a difficult time keeping the diff above the lowest point on the subframe and will be making modifications to the engine bay to do so.
Also, it looks like where the drive shaft would go out is right where the subframe and steering rack would be, so a completely custom subframe would be necessary and to raise the steering rack. I don't think the exhaust tunnel would have to be modified this way, but the fuel tank would have to be moved behind the rear axle. I don't know how you would route the exhaust though? Fetter style out the fender?
This is just my speculation, correct me if I'm wrong.
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I realize the thread is ancient at this point but I saw this answer and wanted to know if u were being serious in saying this or pulling legs. If ur being serious I would like to know which trans ur talking about. But if ur not ignore.
I Love My J ♡