ok guys the time has come for me to finally get myself a quality header. i will be going through ron siebenick but id really like to gather as much information i can on the subject in order to get me the best one i can.
basically, i know nothing about what works and what doesnt work for header design. i know i need one, i know i want a long tube, and i know it needs to have a great scavenging effect, thats pretty much it LOL
so, n/a 2.3 quad 4 setup, motor prolly around 200whp without the header we'll say... what do i do to find out what i need as far as primary size, step length, and collector size, design, and length? i know megaphone's help out for n/a quite a bit but dont know much about them.
so, with all that said, what you guys think?
If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
ok... apparently these 'megaphones' are actually just 'merge collectors' and are HOLY HELL expensive... like 200 a piece for the one i'd need. at least thats what im seeing on ebay and summit/jegs anyways....
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
Choosing the correct Header(s)
The general rule of thumb is a long tube,large primary size, large collector for engines making horsepower in the high rpm area. It all depends where you are wanting to make your power?
xxxwhp@xxxxrpm?
Being a 2.3 im assuming your wanting to rev the hell out of it. In that case I can only suggest a primary tube diameter slightly larger than your finished exhaust port. I have to say the Ron S. header looks like a great peice. I would probably get with Ron and see what he recommends for primary size. The rest of his header looks to be what your wanting, also the reverse megaphone collector seems to be the hot ticket in serious race engines, it promotes high efficency scavenging, thus eliminating the need for smaller diameter primary tubing to do the scavenging.
More details on the setup are needed.
well ron and i have talked... he doesnt want to weld up one of these complicated burns merge collectors, SO... ill be buying just the primaries ( i believe big boy 1 7/8's" ) etc, basically everything up to where the collector goes then ill take over from there and have my tig welder go to town on it.
planning on ceramic coating inside and out THEN wrapping it with thermal wrap. with it being made of stainless AND coated plus never driven in rain and garage stored i dont see rust being an issue.
If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
y wrap it at all if it's ceramic coated?
why use spermicidal lubricant with a condom?
maximum efficiency!
If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
Thermal coating helps some but, wrap is where its at.
Old saying goes: " Don't be a dick, wrap that rascal! "
z yaaaa wrote:well ron and i have talked... he doesnt want to weld up one of these complicated burns merge collectors, SO... ill be buying just the primaries ( i believe big boy 1 7/8's" ) etc, basically everything up to where the collector goes then ill take over from there and have my tig welder go to town on it.
planning on ceramic coating inside and out THEN wrapping it with thermal wrap. with it being made of stainless AND coated plus never driven in rain and garage stored i dont see rust being an issue.
1 7/8" is a bit big no? Thats nearly a 2 inch primary, I think that would be too big for 200whp all-motor.
The header Mike built me is 1 5/8" stepped to 1 3/4", he was saying for the supercharger guys he would go 1 3/4" stepped to 1 7/8".
Something to consider, Ron who is building the header should have some good input as to what the primary size should be I would think?
Dam sounds awesome Brad! Hate to see the wrap cover up the beatiful coated header though
. And brad are you still mad cause I dont want to buy your hood? Sorry man but I want the real lighweight one.
GMR has got nothing on this
z yaaaa wrote:well ron and i have talked... he doesnt want to weld up one of these complicated burns merge collectors, SO... ill be buying just the primaries ( i believe big boy 1 7/8's" ) etc, basically everything up to where the collector goes then ill take over from there and have my tig welder go to town on it.
planning on ceramic coating inside and out THEN wrapping it with thermal wrap. with it being made of stainless AND coated plus never driven in rain and garage stored i dont see rust being an issue.
I've always heard of header wrap leading to premature wear on a header, even if it is ceramic coated and SS. Could be wrong but I know people have had issues and I'm not positive to the exact type of header material in question but I know people definitely had issues. I'd check on that first.
Copter wrote:z yaaaa wrote:well ron and i have talked... he doesnt want to weld up one of these complicated burns merge collectors, SO... ill be buying just the primaries ( i believe big boy 1 7/8's" ) etc, basically everything up to where the collector goes then ill take over from there and have my tig welder go to town on it.
planning on ceramic coating inside and out THEN wrapping it with thermal wrap. with it being made of stainless AND coated plus never driven in rain and garage stored i dont see rust being an issue.
I've always heard of header wrap leading to premature wear on a header, even if it is ceramic coated and SS. Could be wrong but I know people have had issues and I'm not positive to the exact type of header material in question but I know people definitely had issues. I'd check on that first.
im not worried, i need the most performance i can get with an n/a setup. if that means a new header every 10 years, so be it.
and dave, im not sure why such large primaries but that is what ron calls for... paul went with 1 3/4 on his and is plenty so idk what ill do yet...
If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
1 7/8 is huge on an n/a car I wouldnt consider it until you were at the 2.7-3 litres per 4 cylinders range. Ie 2.7-3 litre 4 banger or 5.4-6 litre v8. I mean I was looking at v8 headers for my next car I'm planing on building and I was going to go with a 6.0 L76 and I was on the fence between 1 3/4 and 1 7/8 thinking 1 7/8 might be too big even though I plan on reving it to 7k and making 450+ hp eventually with it.
Make sure he knows your exhaust cam specs when he's designing the header as thats basically the most important part.
Yes I like American v8s and spell litre the correct English way, suck it.
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I would not go less than 1 3/4 for my build.
if you look at most n/a honda headers their largest step is 1 7/8...
and really, i am planning on building a 2.7 quad 4 anyway so.. i guess it'd be ok in the long run LOL
If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
Copter wrote:z yaaaa wrote:well ron and i have talked... he doesnt want to weld up one of these complicated burns merge collectors, SO... ill be buying just the primaries ( i believe big boy 1 7/8's" ) etc, basically everything up to where the collector goes then ill take over from there and have my tig welder go to town on it.
planning on ceramic coating inside and out THEN wrapping it with thermal wrap. with it being made of stainless AND coated plus never driven in rain and garage stored i dont see rust being an issue.
I've always heard of header wrap leading to premature wear on a header, even if it is ceramic coated and SS. Could be wrong but I know people have had issues and I'm not positive to the exact type of header material in question but I know people definitely had issues. I'd check on that first.
Yes. I have seen horrific damage from this practice. Preventing the tube from being able to cool itself dramatically accelerates thermal aging, and will shorten the life of the part significantly.
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the megaphone with the reverse cone is similar to a two stroke exhaust and it is designed that way to actually pull the exhaust thru the pipe that is the only reason i can see as to why high hp guys use them
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welp, ron has been paid and will be building my header shortly. i opted for 304 stainless steel piping, 1 5/8's primaries stepped out to 1 7/8's secondaries. he is building it all up to where the collector goes, then its up to me to get it finished. planning on the burns merge collector, then megaphone.
If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
