I am planning to produce my own high grade ethanol (150-190) for fuel in my car. I started a thread on this awhile ago I searched but could not find it. :-(

Anyway here goes. I know the whole fuel storage and delivery path need to non-sensitive to ethanol's properties. And the injectors need to be bigger and fuel pump bigger cause of the higher flow of this stuff.
But What I am wondering is I'm guessing maybe 25+ WHP maybe more properly "set-up" and tuned really well.

Also with the high octane alot of compression can be used. Thank you in advance for anyone chiming in to share what they know or have built.

How are you going to tune for the A/F ratio needed for Ethonal? You need a LOT more fueling.



PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

Wideband, megasquirt, HP Tuners????? right?

Theres no hp tuners for the 2nd gen. If you use megasquirt then you use megatune as your software. You should also look at a new fuel rail as your is likely aluminum and E will eat through aluminum if it sits on/in it.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer

From what I recall ethanol has a stochiometric ratio of around 8 or 9. Better plan on a lot more fuel than you currently use.

Gasoline stoichiometric 14.7
Gasoline max power rich 12.5
Gasoline max power lean 13.23
E10 stoichiometric 14.0 - 14.1
E85 stoichiometric 9.765
E85 max power rich 6.975
E85 max power lean 8.4687
E100 stoichiometric 9.0078
E100 max power rich 6.429
E100 max power lean 7.8

Definitely look into massive upgrades in fuel delivery. I'm definitely interested. Let us know how it all turns out!


"In Oldskool we trust"

You will need about 40% more fuel per HP, which wouldn't be that hard to get, unless your shooting for super high HP numbers.

That being said, you can run 11-12:1 CR on pump gas no problem, cams to come into play here a little bit but I don't see it being an issue.

I plan on running ~11.5-1 CR this summer on 91.

My buddy ran 13.2:1 CR in his honda for years on 91 pump.

Ethanol has about half the energy of gasoline (Clicky), so you'll need twice the fuel to make the same horsepower in an ideal situation. How are you gonna manage 25 whp?

I don't know where you are getting you're 150-190 from, but 85% ethanol is only about 105. I promise you wont get another 45 or 85 from the extra 15%. And I would run e85 because it is waaaay cheaper and more available than e100. And you would only be loosing maybe 3 or 4 whp.

Oh boy, here we go.



2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R

I realized you may be talking about proof (although not stated in your original post), not octane. If so, disregard my previous post.

In order to have a good cold start, you need to be over 185 proof, at a minimum. Over 195 is preferred, keep in mind everything that is not alcohol is water, which is obviously bad. You need a very good reflux type still to get those numbers, and with very good temperature control. I looked into making my own fuel still a while ago, and decided not to because a decent one with a good volume flow output is over 650 dollars (making it yourself). I can't justify spending that money when I could but E85 for waaay less money.

Maken Waves wrote:Wideband, megasquirt, HP Tuners????? right?

My suggestion if you use Megasquirt would be to use an ethanol sensor from something that's flexfuel. Mainly because it's pretty easy to get away from a gas station that has ethanol. I know you said you're going to make your own (have fun with all the red tape on that). But the ethanol sensor will also make the MS unit capable of compensating for different levels of alcohol in the tank.





i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick

Why do that? You can Just have it figure out what gas is in the tank based on the narrow band. If it needs this much fuel to be at lambda 1 then this fuel is in the tank use these tables. If it takes that much fuel to be at lambda 1 then that fuel is in the tank use those tables. Fuel trims, the knock sensor, and 2 sets of tables should be able to compensate for any fuel you put in it, so long as 1 table is e100 and the other is like around e50. I'm pretty sure MS has this capability and I know this is how the newer GM flex fuel cars work.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer

I just went 11.95 @ 115 in my AWD DSM running e85. Stock tank and lines. Jay Racing 341 fuel pump, fuel lab PAPER FILTER (soon to be ss), stock fuel rail. fic 1250cc injectors and a chipped ecu with a eprom emulator tuning myself.

First of all, you dont shoot for 8 or 9 AFR's.. The ethanol scale on a wb02 is different than the gas scale. I tune on a boosted app to around 12.5 AFR's at WOT (around 27-30psi boost) and around 15-15.5 cruising. Head has been off, no signs of wear. In fact, its steam cleaning the engine which is awesome.

Ethanol isn't corrosive, methanol is. However, ethanol is extremely hydroscopic so it absorbs moisture easily. Water=corrosion. Not ethanol.

PM me if you have any questions, if you'd like.



What do I know... I'm just a stupid 18 year old kid with some quick junk.

Ethanol is corrosive, to aluminum, but only if it sits on it. I'd post of up pictures of the fuel pump out of the old turbo formula car that we took out at the beginning of this year. The aluminum impeller was practically non-existent eaten away by the e85 that we had left in the tank for about 4 months (someone forgot to drain the tank). If it sits on aluminum it will eat though it after a bit of time. But if its just running through it, like it would your head then theres no issues. And the head is super clean because ethanol is a really good solvent.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer

The real gain had with ethanol isn't so-much the octane, but the vaporization of latent-heat cooling effect it has. Add to that the increased amount of it added to the intake-charge versus gasoline and it's no-wonder why there's less total enrichment had under moderate- to full-throttle loads compared to gasoline: It's doing a better job of cooling the charge, which is what a good part of the extra gasoline is doing under those demands!

The lambda system has a funny little quirk to it: It don't care what the fuel is made-up of... It just cars that it's seeing that there's enough of it being used to achieve a certain level of oxygen present in the exhaust after being burned. How? The sensor is made-up of platinum & cubic-zircon, which in the presence of oxygen generates a small voltage (0-1v). The management reads this voltage & anytime not under full-throttle it shoots for trying to maintain the sensor producing a pre-programed ideal... About 0.7v, since it typically fluctuates between 0.5-0.9v. This is said to be the voltage at which stoichiometric-combustion (Best power for least emissions & fuel used) occurs.

I have seen in a issue of Popular Hot-Rodding how there's a shop that will add GM's inline fuel-type sensor to even older OBD-I systems, for those whom wish for their machine to be able have the advantages of a flex-fuel car. I also suppose you could take the necessary parts from a junked '00-'03 S-10/Sonoma that has a "5" as it's 8th VIN-character & door-tags showing it was built after December '99, which would interchange wtih the management on your Twin-Cam for the engine at-least.

I have seen guys with blow-through carb setups with centrifugal superchargers & 10.0:1 compression on all-iron blocks run ethanol without trouble... It's become like the new Sunoco "purple"!

And if all-else fails... You can apply for a micro-distillery license & sell what you make!


Go beyond the "bolt-on".