hi all i'm looking to purchase a header for my cavalier but the question is are the "cheap" ones on ebay crap compared to the pacesetter which is 3 times the price.
also the portsizes if anyone has bought either the chinese header or pacesetter is there a chance that you have pics of the exhaust ports in comparison to the actual exhaust ports.
i call them chinese headers because for $45 they have to be made in china the pace setter is $192 at best.
also if anyone is selling a header i'm interested but 2.4 only
i say use that $45 towards the $192 pacesetter and i don't even own one
maximus overdrive wrote:i say use that $45 towards the $192 pacesetter and i don't even own one
Yup go with Pacesetter...
USA MADE FTW....
-Aaron
www.TurboTechRacing.com
Performance Parts For Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalts and More!!!
How often does something built in China, that you don't eat off of, last for very long?
i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick
my deal is the port sizes. ive heard tht dc makes the biggest port sizes but you're looking @ $400+ the pacesetter is supposed to have small id's
and i can reweld the cheap ones and @ $40 it's a great strting point to build off of.
I have a cheap M2 Performance header, 1.5" primaries, fully tig welded and chromed, before I cermaic coated it.
Ive had it on the car for about a year now, daily driven and have no complaints other than the ball and socket between the header and dp but Pacesetter uses the same design.
I think I paid like $60 shipped for mine, and that wasnt ebay either.
"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"
The whole point of headers is to make-use of tuned-length tubing & collection pipes to help scavenge exhaust from the cylinders on each subsequent pulse. part of this relies on gas velocity. Keep in mind that as exhaust gases exit the cylinder they're still expanding. This expansion continues until the gases cool enough to stop expansion, at which point they stall-out & dissipate... Usually into the atmosphere. By sizing the tubes so this expansion helps push the previous pulse into the collector, where they create a negative (Vacuum) pulse that helps scavenge the next pulse in-line on that cylinder, and helps pull the very next signal in the engine's firing-sequence on a adjacent cylinder that feeds into the same collector down it's pipe. These pulses all converge in sequence in the collector & push-pull each-other along the exhaust piping until they see a point of pressure change (area of open-expansion... like the end of the tailpipe).
Port size isn't everything in the construction of a header... It's only a tuning-point. The other is going with a length of pipe that matches the frequency of the pulses at a given RPM in the engines operating-range. Namely, a point where cam-overlap actually hinders exhausting the spent gases. Or worse... Would cause them to be pulled back-in, diluting the incoming air/fuel charge, hindering performance!
Large tubes that allow for a higher amount of gases in a given signal are only necessary if the engine in-question has been modified to flow a greater amount of air in the first-place. And I'm talkin' stuff like cams & manifolds, along with enlarged & reshaped ports, to help it breathe better at certain (Usually higher) RPMs. If your engine is mostly stock aside from a few non-hard-wrenching bolt-ons, bigger tubes aren't the way to go... as the pulse will just stall-out & choke (Restrict the flow of gases) the exhaust like as if you went to a smaller than stock exhaust-pipe. Minimal size tube I.D.for a given calculated HP is the way to go for any application that will see street-duty, as these will maintain exhaust-gas velocity... Which greatly helps scavenging at low-revs. Something well-needed under part-throttle conditions seen while driving on the street. Although, I have seen one design that seems to contradict this philosophy...
Al's Headers in California makes one that's a direct bolt-on replacement for the exhaust-manifold on LN2's S-trucks. It uses primaries of 1-7/8"diam of short length, so as to keep the collector flange in it's ideal spot for meeting with the factory down-pipe. The idea appears to be to "trick" the exhaust-gas pulse into acting like they're seeing the exhaust-pipe directly (Pretty easy, seeing how the ports on the '98-later LN2 are so small) and are of a length that they work in properly in the fashion I mentioned earlier. The result? A substantial increase in HP & TQ over the stock manifold, even when used alone!
Finally, construction of a header is critical to it's longevity. Good metals (304-stainless is best) and heavy gauges (14g tubing & 3/8" flanges are ideal) along with a quality ceramic coating are the best combination for a header that will last perhaps just as long as the factory cast-iron manifold would.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
If you buy a cheap one, just make sure all the ports are level to match to the head. I had to use a straight edge and a belt sander to get mine right. If you do that you may get away with a cheapie like I did.
"In Oldskool we trust"
One more thing: The welds should preferably be on the outside--not the mating-surface--of the flange. And have an appearance like that of the decorative string of shells made of frosting sometimes seen running around the edge of a birthday-cake. If not, find a reputable welding shop & have them fix it!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Mine is welded both inside and outside. Side by side with a pacesetter and you couldnt tell the difference.
"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"
Thanks guys!
As for "nicklen dimer" what you said is true. But my car is running HO cams with the m40 s/c and ive ported the head considerably. The factory exaust manifold ports are signifigantly smaller than what they are now. No i haven'over ported the head my brother is huge into the quad 4s and i used a 91 HO head as a guideline.
Thanks alot though for everyone who has or will be posting on this forum.
So if the cheapo headers are 1.5 primaries does anyone know what the pacesetter measures in at?
darel unruh wrote:Thanks guys!
As for "nicklen dimer" what you said is true. But my car is running HO cams with the m40 s/c and ive ported the head considerably. The factory exaust manifold ports are signifigantly smaller than what they are now. No i haven'over ported the head my brother is huge into the quad 4s and i used a 91 HO head as a guideline.
Thanks alot though for everyone who has or will be posting on this forum.
So if the cheapo headers are 1.5 primaries does anyone know what the pacesetter measures in at?
Well then, like I've said: The more air you're trying to move, the bigger the tube you will need. And I meant tube-size, not port... Otherwise it'll act like a big hang-up. Having the tube bigger than the port will be just the opposite of that, helping to limit reversion during the moment of cam overlap.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
darel unruh wrote:
So if the cheapo headers are 1.5 primaries does anyone know what the pacesetter measures in at?
Im pretty sure they are 1.5" as well.
"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"
after looking and talking to people i found that the dc sports #3001 are far superior to any other header out there not only are they a 4-2-1 style but they are larger primaries and overall tube diameter.....and they look way cooler.
the catch is they're twice as much as a pacesetter and 10 times a cheapo header.
bang for the buck for sure dc sports all the way.
thanks everyone who helped me.
DC Sports has not made that header in over 3 years... I dont anyone actually have it in stock.
-Aaron
www.TurboTechRacing.com
Performance Parts For Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalts and More!!!
I have a tusdo header on my car, ya it has a leak at the flex pipe but other than that it has been a good header, just a @!#$ty quality flex pipe. I just havn't had the time to get the flex pipe replaced seeing as i am going to be turboing in a bit. I have two of these headers one on my car and one in a box in my garage. I can sell the spare one to you.
