today i got a 96 auto sunfire & have all intentions of pulling the whole engine cradle with engine/trans attached, & have a in tact 90 lumina with no title but a good 3.1 engine & auto trans, & want to put that whole engine/trans/cradle in the sunfire because this sunfire is MINT.
is the gauge cluster/ecu swap going to be a problem with this?
Yes it is going to be a problem.
The other problem is that the 3.1 only makes 135-140hp. Might as well just swap in an ECOTEC for the minimal gain that you'll be seeing from the swap.
www.gmscf.com
not really, i dont have an ecotec laying around, none of the cheap transmissions i have access to have that bolt pattern, so id be spending $1000 just for that stuff, before i started fabbing it in. i literally have a whole other car that i got & lost the title to, lost the key to, & it needs an intake gasket/rear passenger hub put on it.
also, about me losing stuff, it was a very hectic/bad day when i got the car...dont ask
the sunfire is beautiful other than 1 1"x4" rust spot in the cab corner region that i will be fixing very soon
also i have a set of headers that will be put on the engine if/when i install it in the sunfire-& intend to put a bigger tb (probably a 4.3 tb but i dont know the size yet) as well as a big of port matching work & a ram air intake (home made of coarse).
also a moates tuner from moates.net
Lane McClure wrote:http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=30&i=40670&t=40670
this may give a little help
not really that is for 3100/3400
at this point im STRONGLY considering just swapping in the whole engine cradle with everything attached & just removing the original equipment (i want it to rebuild it & stick it in a metro in a few months)-would either sets of shocks be able to hook up still & how hard would the extra 4" of vehicle width be on my tires until i get spacers for the back wheels?
$1000 bucks for an ecotec swap!?!?!?!
Holy hell batman, my whole ecotec parts car was $400 with everything i needed and more! Penny says my lil eco would lay a stomp on that 3.1... super cereal though, its not worth putting in a 3.1, your gonna have to do a ton more work, plus a bunch of pain in the ass wiring. The eco swap on a pre 00 is a lil bit more time consuming than my 00 did, but the gains between that 3.1 and ecotec are imo tilted favorably on the ecotec side. Less weight, waaaaaay more potential, and well... its gonna be less of a headache.
My swap only took 15 hours, albeit it in a gm shop and 2 peoples. For 400 bucks though... very very cost effective way to make better power.
had a blown ecotec swapped 2000 cavy, now just an 02 Grand Am, and a 74 BMW 2002...
people haven't learned to tell the BS post yet
imaybe cause i get a bunch of them this guy wants to swap an OBD1 motor to an OBD2 car because he wants to go from 120hp to 140. did you know a stock 2nd gen Z24 with that same motor runs low 16s and the sunfire you have with the 2.2 runs high 16s low 17s you will pick up less then a second in the 1/4
did you not think you can sell the motor for cheap and buy an eco parts car or something
people need to stop and think about things like the numerous messages i get about people wanting to swap the series 1 motor in there car because there grandma gave them the car for free when the 3400 would be easier and faster then a series 1 motor
not to mention he think hes gonna swap the engine craddle out of the lumina to a 96 j body GOOD LUCK
JBO since July 30, 2001
someone who stuffed a supercharged iron boat anchor into one of these is the last person that should be running down the 3.1-LMAO!
NOTa2 its people like you that make things like this not happen. plenty of people put 3400's in these cars, but you are telling me that since its an obd2 car, even though i have no problem wiring everything up as long as i can get the wiring diagrams that i need. if money was not an option id stick a damn 3.7 40v audi v8 in it-but it -is- an issue.
also-i do NOT want OBDII, you can talk all day about how much better it is-but its $500 more just for me to be able to tune it-for a few extra hp or 1-2 more mpg more, NOT worth it to me considering this isnt a drag car & im not trying to make something crazy fast-but rather to use the engine/trans/wiring harness/etc... thats in my lumina since otherwise its just sitting around.
also-i HAVE the equipment to put this engine/transmission in my garage, with the exception of extending some of the harness, throttle cables & such, which is pretty standard stuff for an engine swap.
what i DO NOT HAVE is $400-500 to get a parts car (IF i could find one but everyone around here jerks the motors/trans & sells them), a place to put a 5th project car, & then $500-$600 more for the tuning software, and THEN all the stuff id need to buy/fab up to fit the ecotec engine in place.
the point is-the 4 cylinder is coming out for my metro, & im putting the 3.1 in because im not trying to fit that monster DOHC 3.4 in there.
also-the ecotec & alum head 3.1 make the same amount of power, but were originally produced over a decade ago & has twice as many valves per cylinder-having the -same- amount of power as a 2 valve v6 made over a decade prior is nothing to brag about-& ill be more than happy to bet that your "all mighty ecotec" will not make more power without revving way higher-id be willing to bet-with no internal mods & good tunes-the 3.1 will take the 2.2 any day, let alone the extra cylinders
if you really want to tell me the 3.1 is underpowered you can go ahead & compare it to the quad 4, but the ecotec is a poor comparison for an NA non -built- engine.
if you are going to post & tell me not to do it-dont bother-because im doing it. its that or this sunfire is getting scrapped-because i only got it to put the engine/trans in a metro i also have-as well as wiring it up for OBDI because for $120 i can tune an OBD
if you have such qualms with me doing this & want to say it wont happen-then leave me be-because you arent helping whatsoever by telling me what engine would be better if i had an extra $1k to throw at it-when in the end all i want is for my 3.1 and this beautiful sunfire body not to go to waste just because i want the engine/trans/cradle for something else.
any help is greatly appreciated, but telling me that i have no intention of doing this because "an ecotec swap would be better" is pretty damn arrogant considering you dont know me.
also 100lbs isnt that big of a deal to me-its not like this 3.1 is an ironhead motor (if you think it is, you have no room telling me anything about the 60* engines).
my bad on thinking ty & NOT's post were the same one-but my point stands.
you could have said-dude an ecotec swap would be easier & swapping the engine cradle is BAD idea-& if that seems to be the general consensus then i wont attempt it-i figured maybe thatd be simpler than fabbing engine/motor mounts/possibly cv shafts-but you're saying im wrong (in a very ass munchish way at that).
nope-you had the audacity to say that this post is BS & that i have no intentions of swapping the motor & trans in. if you have the Gaul to say that without even knowing me, id like to know what your course of action is going to be when i post a video of this car running & driving WITH the 3.1?
also, the lumina wasnt given to me-i purchased it a LONG time ago.
also-i have looked into the ecotec engines, and around here people arent stupid enough to sell an entire parts car with good engine & trans for $400-thats absolutely retarded considering junk yards get at LEAST 400 for the engine & 300-400 for the trans, thats not including any other parts.
id rather keep my 3.1 that is rebuilt & later on (if i deem it necessary) swap on a 3x00 topend & such-but i doubt that will be necessary because i dont need high hp out of this car-my work is going into the metro-i just cant see myself scrapping a great sunfire body with good interior & clean title-if i dont have to.
i am absolutely not trying to build a race car here, im trying to cheaply as possible to use this car/my engine & trans to make this car go down the road & get decent mpg without lacking power real bad-you'd be better off trying to convince me to put in an ecotec in the metro-but thats not happening because i cant locate a reasonable ecotec engine/trans within 200 miles for less than $700.
before you give someone holy hell & tell them that they are full of it because they arent spending the most to get the most-when thats not even what im trying to do here-stop & take a deep breath, & think about how youd feel if someone spoke the same way to/about you.
You people can go on about the ecotec all day, but the fact is, it sounds like this guy has fabrication sills, and a free engine & trans. Essentially, all the OBD BS you're going on about is moot since you could just get the SF down to a shell with seats, and swap in all the electronics. If someone can put an ecotec in a Gen 2, then someone can put a 3.1 in a Gen 3. If you've got the time, swap it and enjoy your incredibly cheap car.
2010 Honda Fit LX
thats my point exactly, i have plenty of fabrication skills & took dirt track/race car tube chasis building at UNOH & passed just fine as well as having already passed machining/metal fab where i learned to shape aluminum & can build gas tanks/body panels like the guys at WCC (not claiming im nearly as good or that i have their awesome machines, but ive been taught how to do a lot of what they do)-as well as how to build headers & work with mig tig stick and oxy-acetylene on aluminum.
im pretty sure my fabrication skills are up to par for mounting an engine/trans in this car, sorry i even made the mistake of thinking that it would be no harder to mount the cradle than to mount the engine/trans separately-i saw a guy put a 3400 in a metro with the van engine cradle, & besides the weight he did just fine.
also im counting on having to strip down a LOT of the SF to wire it up-i figured that was pretty standard stuff-but apparently thats too hard for some people?
if this car runs & drives down the road good when im done, im happy-im not looking to build a 300hp street monster-id rather just build up the 1800lb metro im getting tomorrow since the light weight means i dont have to build/turbo the piss out of the motor to have a hell of a quick ride
.
also thank you for the encouragement ACT-im having a really @!#$ty day/night & you made it all the better just by understanding what im trying to accomplish & not running me down for it.
heh i guess i over responded a little. I can see the fact that you have the whole car, and i guess your fab skills are probably up to snuff for you to take on the project like ants cry tom said. Personally though, and this is just me talkin, that theres better swaps out there. Theres a few points to this though that I wouldnt complain with ... the sound of a v6 beats the hell out of a 4 banger any day (well... subarus sound good), and the fact its a little less common to see a v6 in a 3rd gen. All the more power to you since you seem pretty dead set on doing it anyways.
but again... im biased to what I have (as im sure most people are) and the fact its a very popular engine platform...
had a blown ecotec swapped 2000 cavy, now just an 02 Grand Am, and a 74 BMW 2002...
All the economical reasons aside, it's a solid engine. Mine has 200,000 kms on the clock and runs great. If it weren't for my job and needing to look professional (I do deliveries sometimes to people's houses with their medication, so the company wants me to drive the nicest car I can. This means I'm driving the Corolla), I'd still be driving my '92 cavy.
2010 Honda Fit LX
Jon Mick.... since you seem to know all about it. I see you talking down on Nota2_4 like you're worth something. At least he did a swap, and he read posts and did it on his own without asking dumb questions. Since he's the "last" person that can talk @!#$ since he put in a supercharged boat anchor in his car, then I'm the first person who can since I put in a 3400 (which, in case you haven't noticed is a 60 degree engine, just like yours... it's the same engine asides form some displacement and some manfolds and stuff. Just newer really)
I will tell you you're right on one thing though. With a good tune and no internal mods, the 2.2 ECOTEC and the 3.1L 2nd gen 60 degree are no contest. The ECOTEC car will walk all over it, all day long. (Remember that this is coming from the guy that swapped the motor that you want to.... or at least one very similar).
But on to the facts. The extra 4" of vehicle width?!?!!!!111oneone. I bought laughed my dick off when I read that one. I can by what you've posted that you have absolutely no idea what direction to go in with the swap. You don't appear to really have the skills and abilities for this swap right at the moment either.
But here's a better idea. Since you're so dead set on what you're going to do. If you want that 3.1 in your car, do what I had to do when I did mine. Cruise the message boards. And I don't mean just here because knowledge is not unlimited here (though many seem to think it is). Do what I had to do and go out and figure the @!#$ out for yourself, scrounge through what little posts there are and go off a little tiny bit of information and figure it out from there. You figure out how to make it run, you figure out how to make it roll. On your own. Obviously you're not very set on this since you seem to want to have a contest on the forums about who's j-body penis is bigger.
By the way, better check into laws and requirements for registering your car if you want to ditch that OBD-II. You might just happen to need it. Wether you want it or not.
www.gmscf.com
3400 isnt a 60* engine? its a 3100 with a bigger bore-but i guess that changes the degree of the vee..
. get on 60degreev6 & tell them that, get laughed at! LOL
also where i am theres no e check or anything, so no ones going to say anything about this being OBDI...
people that think its necessary to throw a fit because "they dont like a certain question asked on their forum, it really offends & upsets them" well same thing for me-when someone that doesnt know me or anything about me wants to call BS on me does the same for me.
also NOTa24 decided that it was necessary to run me down for wanting to do this & to say that this is a BS post that i have no intention of going through with because a 3400 would be stronger or in the long run an ecotec engine may put out more power if you rev the crap out of it...he posted negative and insulting things about me in my thread where i was just asking for help. he didnt help, he just ran me the hell down because i dont have all the money in the world to swap whatever i want into this car.
so what you are telling me SHO-is that you put an engine in your car without knowing anything about it? i suggest you get on 60*v6-its a great resource for the 2.8 aluminum head, 2.8 iron head, 3.1 aluminum head/3.1 iron head/3.4 iron head/3100&3400 (all series)/lq1 3.4 dohc, & new v6 or 2.
ive been on 60* for 4 years & have owned
4x 3.1 aluminum head engines
1x iron head 2.8
1x iron head 3.1
1x iron head 3.4 (just got rid of it 2 days ago)
2x 3.4 dohc lq1's
2x 3100's
& 1x 3400
if you doubt me that this engines not a 60* engine-go look for yourself-because it shares a block (altho its updated a bit) with all of those other engines i listed, altho the engine mounts are the same & the 3x00 engines have roller equipment in the valvetrain unlike the older models.
also my lumina & the cav have a 4" difference in width so if i basically used the whole lumina front end, the tires would be sticking out an extra 2" on each side.
honestly i wasnt talking down to NOTa24, i respect the fact that he put a HELL of a lot of work into stuffing that big heavy engine into that car, & im sure he has more than enough power to do whatever he needs-but he came into this thread & wanted to tell me that me wanting to do this is BS.
i didnt post the title as "WHAT ENGINE COULD I STUFF IN THIS SUNFIRE FOR MAX POWER?" im just trying to save it from the junk yard by using what i have, sorry thats not good enough for some people!
also my lumina & the cav have a 4" difference in width so if i basically used the whole lumina front end, the tires would be sticking out an extra 2" on each side-this is my rationale, but im yet to stuff an incorrect engine cradle in an actual street vehicle yet so thats the best i can figure.
the 3400 is a 60 degree v6 and that is exactly what shoff said and you make no sence
with what you have, i'd lean towards swapping in the 3100 block with the 3400 head swap...
i do like the exagerated LN2 hp listed above... LN2 Auto = 91 WHP... not 120
Potential wise... the 3100 can be setup to become a 3400 (bore,stroke, head swap, etc)... its gonna cost more, but will give you a 13 second car to begin with, and can be boosted... so the v6 has just as much potential as the eco or the LD9... but you gotta look at the cost and the thought process... Its takes less creativeity to make an Eco fast with all the available parts... so if you don't want a challenge, go that route... any other motor besides the LN2 would pose a challenge, but are capible. (The LN2 will never reach the 500 - 700 WHP range and last more than a year)
Personally, i'd do what i'm doing and build the 2.4... but my car came with one... and if i swapped motors in my second gen... i'd either drop a 2.4 (plus trans, computer, and dash), or go full 3400 and rep the gains. Or if i have the patience i may just drop the 3800 Series 2 supercharged and really call it a day...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:54 PM
Wow.......This guy IS as stupid as he sounds..For someone who has been on 60 V6 for years, you sure know alot about these motors lol
Jon Mick wrote:
3400 isnt a 60* engine? its a 3100 with a bigger bore-but i guess that changes the degree of the vee... get on 60degreev6 & tell them that, get laughed at!
They must be as dumb and imbred as you if they think this way too.
Jon Mick wrote:3400 isnt a 60* engine? its a 3100 with a bigger bore-but i guess that changes the degree of the vee... get on 60degreev6 & tell them that, get laughed at! LOL
also where i am theres no e check or anything, so no ones going to say anything about this being OBDI...
people that think its necessary to throw a fit because "they dont like a certain question asked on their forum, it really offends & upsets them" well same thing for me-when someone that doesnt know me or anything about me wants to call BS on me does the same for me.
also NOTa24 decided that it was necessary to run me down for wanting to do this & to say that this is a BS post that i have no intention of going through with because a 3400 would be stronger or in the long run an ecotec engine may put out more power if you rev the crap out of it...he posted negative and insulting things about me in my thread where i was just asking for help. he didnt help, he just ran me the hell down because i dont have all the money in the world to swap whatever i want into this car.
so what you are telling me SHO-is that you put an engine in your car without knowing anything about it? i suggest you get on 60*v6-its a great resource for the 2.8 aluminum head, 2.8 iron head, 3.1 aluminum head/3.1 iron head/3.4 iron head/3100&3400 (all series)/lq1 3.4 dohc, & new v6 or 2.
ive been on 60* for 4 years & have owned
4x 3.1 aluminum head engines
1x iron head 2.8
1x iron head 3.1
1x iron head 3.4 (just got rid of it 2 days ago)
2x 3.4 dohc lq1's
2x 3100's
& 1x 3400
if you doubt me that this engines not a 60* engine-go look for yourself-because it shares a block (altho its updated a bit) with all of those other engines i listed, altho the engine mounts are the same & the 3x00 engines have roller equipment in the valvetrain unlike the older models.
also my lumina & the cav have a 4" difference in width so if i basically used the whole lumina front end, the tires would be sticking out an extra 2" on each side.
honestly i wasnt talking down to NOTa24, i respect the fact that he put a HELL of a lot of work into stuffing that big heavy engine into that car, & im sure he has more than enough power to do whatever he needs-but he came into this thread & wanted to tell me that me wanting to do this is BS.
i didnt post the title as "WHAT ENGINE COULD I STUFF IN THIS SUNFIRE FOR MAX POWER?" im just trying to save it from the junk yard by using what i have, sorry thats not good enough for some people!
also my lumina & the cav have a 4" difference in width so if i basically used the whole lumina front end, the tires would be sticking out an extra 2" on each side-this is my rationale, but im yet to stuff an incorrect engine cradle in an actual street vehicle yet so thats the best i can figure.
Im getting a crack outa this thread. Jon man, you may know alot about cars, but you are not making yourself clear on here. I see here in this quote where you repeat yourself twice about the same thing... 2"s on both sides....cool... cool we got it the first time. Honestly, you may know about fabrication, but the materials.... time... headache. an L61, a LD9, something else seems easier... if you want a challenge.... do it. But seriously, people will disagree, people will flame, people will call B.S. No sense in getting all worked up and typing up term paper responses with broken english. People have opinions... chill... who cares.... swap... post vids like you said... and let people complement... end of story... end of thread
lol yea i tend to repeat myself, ive just been having a really @!#$ty week & tend to think a mile a minute as well as i did use to write term papers & such for people, i made a good chunk of change doing that back in school
i appreciate your objective & unbiased comment man
