Okay. Just for those whom are tired of threads about doing RWD conversions on FWD J-cars... this is not that!
Instead, I propose the following: Since there are many "classic" economy-cars out there... namely, ones built on a RWD platform with (none the less) 4-cyl engines... still in existence, why not do the classic hot-rodder move & swap a later-model power-plant under the hood? In this case, namely: The Ecotec!
Okay... I know what many of you are saying: Why bother doing so much work to place a newer engine in an older body car? Well, lemme ask you this: Isn't that what many here already do, with swapping LD9s & what-not into whatever older M/Y FWD J-car? Yeah, they are! So how is this really different from that? Simple: It's different. And I mean the type of different that really gets attention. Because the connection between was so obvious (econo-car + 4-cyl), and the performance results would be so impressive... Others will ask "Why didn't anyone think of doing this sooner?".
We all know why no-one seemed to think of it sooner... Traditional thinking. We all know how it goes, in any sub-group of any genre: This is bad, but this is better. So lets just go with this. And this spreads & carries on for who knows how long, until any deviation from it... outside of a certain degree... is considered unacceptable. And that's what really hurts development of good ideas, such as what I'm suggesting here.
Well, what if we decided to break from this? Just said "Oh, the hell with it! Tradition & popularity be damned... It's my project & I'll do what I want for the fun of it!", and decided to be totally different... yet make sense? If a car came with a 4-cyl, and there are newer 4-cyls out there that make impressive power numbers that are competitive with the more commonly swapped-in V-8 or even 6-cyl engines, why not swap one in? It'll obviously be less weight... And the power & efficiency gained will rival even the common late-model stuff, without so-much modern "mandated" curb-weight bloating. Not to mention that the experience of driving such a machine will be quite the change from the norm imprinted upon us from late-model offerings. Ever wonder why people smile & somehow affectionately give an approving salute to older-model cars? Because they're different... and have distinctive styling that's pleasant to the eye. Not like the seemingly jelly-bean, rounded wheeled blob that's become all too commonplace... and ignorable.
Just think about it... You find an old Vega or Astre (same thing, essentially...)in fair condition, drop a LD9 into it backed with a T-5 & just refresh the rest, then hit the scene. Nothing like that anywhere around, is there? Not to mention you're getting way more attention than you thought possible... even with your subbed-out Cavy if it were cranking god-knows what. Or... You contact Warlock Industries, and order-up one of their 1st-gen Nova replicas that have the full pro-stock chassis treatment to it. And slip-in an LNF with a turbo as big as your head, and an inter-cooler that looks big enough for a semi-tractor. And connect it to the drive-axle with a Liberty Gear trans... or a Lenco, or even a nuke-proof automatic (Allison?) with an overdrive... and maybe cruise it to the local test-&-tune, impressing everybody with this "4-cyl econocar" that clicks-off times that compete with the biggest, burliest V-8 machines there. All the while sipping on whatever fuel you chose to tune it to run on... be it pump-fuel or high-octane "race-only" unleaded (Hey... It's still using EGOS, so...)or even E(85?)... to the tune of mileage in the mid-20s or so. Something the "more serious" guys can't even dream of doing. Oh yeah... It is so good to be different.
So how 'bout it...Willing to take a shot & be the envy (or despise, even...) of your group or scene? Then take the chance... New-school something old! No matter what results, once it's complete & right... you won't regret it!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
well how about in a 93 s10? $#@* v8 swaps (unless lsx)
I'm already undertaking such a project with a 1980 Sunbird. If my money flows correctly I will have it drivable by the end of the summer. But we will see.
I would actually like to see a built/turbo L61 in a first or second gen z24...RWD or not
This concept isnt really anything to far out of the ordinary. It sounded at the begining that you were planning on building something yourself- then it just went kind of pointless from there (no offence) So i think i may have missed the whole point of this post, since it seems to go nowhere other than to ask someone else to build what you want to see. I say just do it, then you will have your own fun toy- i seem to remember seeing that you have 2 S-10s......
oldskool wrote:I would actually like to see a built/turbo L61 in a first or second gen z24...RWD or not
My first car was a second gen Z, and i still have a soft spot for them. I have an ecotec stashed away, but havent started a serious search for a clean 2nd gen- someday maybe...
_
Now with northstar V8, IRS, 20's n 22's
72' Datsun 510 with a turbo eco...
sundsgud.....
Only cause I know a guy who races one... and they look sick dropped 5" and on some road racing tires...
Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards
Quote:
It sounded at the begining that you were planning on building something yourself- then it just went kind of pointless from there
my thoughts exactly.
plus, there are RWD cars out there that didn't come with ecos..
I already know of one ecotec powered fiero.
There's several RWD conversions being worked on.. the S10 that was posted here already, and I believe another rodder is working on an ecotec powered Ford Anglia.
Look up Victory Red SS on cobaltSS.net basically a cobalt being converted to a RWD outlaw car with the LSJ still doin the pushing.
personally, I'd like to see an ecotec put into a Geo Metro, Nissan 240sx, datsun 510, a datsun 240/260Z, or if someone is brave enough, take the front subframe from a jbody and cut out the rear of the car and mount it in the back, basically turning the jbody into a midmount rwd car.
SO_hardcore wrote:well how about in a 93 s10? $#@* v8 swaps (unless lsx)
Very nice. Good to see someone make in-roads on such an idea. Were can I see more of it, and maybe track it's progress?
Well, since some of you got it... and some just seemed to pan it, and question me... lets see some of those examples you just spoke of. Post pics, or links, or whatever you have... Let's just see it. And when I'm able to do the same... maybe even do one of the more radical suggestions I made... I'll let you guys be the first to know.
Thanks for reading, and please... give more positive feedback!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:
I already know of one ecotec powered fiero.
I like the 450+hp Naturally aspirated Fiero with the Micheal Waltrip Daytona Dash motor instead...
You wanna see some quality fab work...thats it right there...when you can just flat out walk any vette (C6, Z06, and quite possibly the new ZR1) with a N/A 4 cylinder thats impressive...
I should go to the guys house with my shop manager and get some pictures, hes friends with him and he was one of the guys I consulted a few times with my project as he's already had an LSJ SS/SC Cobalt well into the 400hp range with HPT. The fiero is his street toy basically just to @!#$ with just about anything out there :-)
ITs a cool car too, One of my biggest curiosities being with the shift linkage as he runs an older modified getrag (something like 1 of 200 built with the gearing he has) and his short shifter is amazing, I've just been pondering the idea of being able to use the shift bushing kit he got for it for our applications.
Damnit now you've got me all thinking about picking up a 510 to screw with....
Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards
(Heh, heh, heh) Don't feel bad... Before I learned how badly the frame rails on my '94 were rusted (Through!), I pondered the notion of grabbing a Vega wagon that was for sale at a local 'yard that was closing soon (at the time...) to shove the rather fresh (30,000mi) LN2, old but still sturdy 4L60E & management into... Just to have a stylish & efficient cruiser! I still wish I jumped on it when I had the chance. Oh well....
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
t5 with a quad 4 rods bell housing adapter.
I always thought a rat rod maybe like a 30 something Chevrolet with an eco or quad 4 would be cool.
Maybe even throw some itb's on it with velocity stacks....
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote: take the front subframe from a jbody and cut out the rear of the car and mount it in the back, basically turning the jbody into a midmount rwd car.
this.
take a gander, mid engine h22 lude. ive been eyeballing this idea.
http://www.inlinexracing.com/
I am so enjoying what I see thus-far.
The Fiero: For a long-while now the Quad4 was a popular choice for swap among P-car builders... so the Ecotec having favor now is no surprise. And good to see.
The DMC idea: Well, I guess that was eventual. Hard to think of a more suitable replacement for that Bosch KE-Jetronic'd Renualt six.
The T-car (Chevette): Well, so much for being the first to build one as a serious road-handler instead of another "Balance-be-damned" drag-machine with a V-8 or V-6 grossly over-weighting the front suspension & throwing it's near-perfect 51/49 balance out the window. Those things were tops in euro-rally, in the day. At least until the first Audi Quattros showed-up. And I've personally put my base-model '79 through paces you would only consider taking a truck through (Overland, up a wall & off a short cliff) and came out shining! So I know they're surprisingly tough chassis-wise.
On the same note, I (like many of you, I'm sure) like to add without taking away. So, I like to shoot for a certain middle-ground as for weight, displacement & power when replacing an engine with one of a similar (4-cyl in this case) design with a more modern one. This pertains partially to handling... since the T-car's gas engine only weighs 186lbs fully assembled, and I don't want to upset it's point-&-turn on-rails handling... and performance improvement in both acceleration & fuel-efficiency. So basically: What's an Ecotec weigh? And doesn't Daewoo or the Aveo have a 1.6L version?
And hey... What about cars (trucks not speak-up, 'cause we heard you already) that were more favored to have V-8s & V-6s, also received 4-cyls? I think you know what I mean (Yes, I am that crazy & I don't wear a mullet!): The '82-'86 F-bodies (Camaro & Firebird). These got a TBI'd Iron-Duke... most likely to met CAFE-mandates & California emissions standards... until Reagan rolled-back the mandate & GM made the 2.8L V-6 the standard engine.
Reason I suggest this is I've seen allot of F-bods & other stuff Pro-Street'd (Finished custom street cars with Pro-stocker looks) back in the day, many of which were just trailer-queens & fairgrounds-cruisers (Had tunes that slowly pushed them off the trailer & around said grounds, and nothing more). That lead to the brief... and un-glorious... Pro-Fooler movement (Pro-Street looks with dressed-up mundane base-model engines that could drive cross-country faultlessly) as somewhat of a poke at what Pro-Street customs had become at the time.
Now, I'm not one for the Pro-Fooler movement... I would just like to see what'd result from building a 3rd-gen with, oh say... a blown & turbo'd Ecotec under the hood (Hey, you've seen those that huge turbos on these engines... how is this different?) with maybe a bit of tubbin', or just 10.5" slicks out-back. One could go full-dress Pro-Street if they like, and make people gawk at the sight of this "puny" (But powerful!) engine in it the moment the front-clip comes off. I know, the last part sounds too "ricer" if I ask you. But still, it'd be a hoot to drive... Especially when you click-off a 10-sec or better time in a car that's "nothing-much" outside some 10.5 slicks & skinnies in-front, and reveal the motivation.
Okay... That now aside, let's return to the original focus of this thread. And keep the ideas comin'!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
oldskool wrote:I would actually like to see a built/turbo L61 in a first or second gen z24...RWD or not
Been done. It was dropped into a Sunbird with a 1st gen clip, boosted and bagged, and painted a beautiful shade of red.
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=29&i=60726&t=60726 <---- includes finished pics. I'm thinking of doing that to my '88 Beretta, but with an all motor build on a more motor sport oriented suspension setup.
2010 Honda Fit LX
This thread has high potential for being one of the most interesting threads on JBO provided it goes the right direction...
This is what passion for everything automotive means, taking the weird, unprobable or completely random combinations (within reason) and making them play nice together and getting the best out of both worlds from them...
Take the neon brakes, better braking, more efficient setup, lighter, so better overall in the performance category...best from the world of brakes...and best in the world of cavaliers since, well its no longer on a neon is it?
This reminds me of the guy in a vintage rail class...he runs a twin turbo inline six...except that inline six started out as two inline 4 cylinders, its impressive to say the least, and its just something that has just enough "wtF" factor to make it unique and completely his own. It really makes me smile to think of what some people will come up with when they have a true passion for making their vehicles, better, faster, stronger or safer. It really brings a positive outlook to the automotive aftermarket.
Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards
That eco chevette build is nuts! I hope the guy finishes it.
2010 Honda Fit LX
Big News!: Hot Rod Magazine, one of the oldest "traditionalist" car-builder/motorsports hobbist publications as just printed an article in which they did a build-up of a "junkyard" Ecotec 2.0L w/blower & made 376hp. Text went on to call the Ecotec "The SBC of 4-cyl engines...", showing how impressed they were with the output.
Mind you, I've only just began to read this article, but it strikes me as something big & it goes in with the idea I started here, of building late-model design 4-cyls & placing them in apps in which traditional V-8s are placed. An idea I started partially with proving something in mind: That modern 4-cyls are just as capable as "older" V-8s at performing well. Apparently Hot Rod has grasped this, and this is sure to get things turning in the (gear)heads of traditionalist looking to go with something different. Perhaps it won't be long before someone obtains a Vega (Hopefully a "square-mouth" one) and drops some incarnation of this into it.
Personally, I'd be lucky to find an old 3rd-gen with T-tops in IROC trim to such a thing with... even with the LN2 & 4L60E outta my rusted-to-hell '94, just as a something comedic like: The perennial "ricer". It'd get looks, laughs, but still a bit of respect as making something for "what it is".
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
