I bought this header off ebay for my 2.2 Ecotec. It wasn't called a Tsudo but looks exactly the same. Had it installed by a mechanic along with a full exhaust and Dynomax muffler. It was great for about a week, then I start hearing an exhaust leak where the header meets the engine. When I called the mechanic to talk about it, he said he LEFT A BOLT OUT because the angle of the pipe prevented him from securing it properly. Whole conversation turned bad and he basically told me he was washing his hands of it and to deal with the manufacturer.
Anyway, my question is has anyone ever had this problem of not being able to put a bolt in the area circled below? What kind of damage could this have caused (the leak has gotten worse over the last couple weeks)? I'm taking it to another mechanic this weekend
Here's a pic I took of mine.
Thanks.
I finally installed my Tsudo header and it was the MOST pain in the ass I've ever had.... partly because of my lack of the right tools but also because of problems with leaks and the problem you mentioned...
the exhaust stud is backed up against the 2nd primary tube that curves there when the header is flush with the head and there is no way to get a nut on there....I have no idea who other people have got around this, since I've seen no mention of this in other Tsudo exhaust threads I've seen.
This is what I did but you'll need a dremel with a cutting disk... remove the header and thread on a nut until it's about where it should be when fully tight (exposed stud threads should be darker there) or measure the depth of the flange and the nut and make your cut there.... with the dremal held 90deg cut off the end of the stud right at the end of the nut (nut needs to be left on, don't remove it until after the cut).. grind it smooth against the nut and then wrench off the nut to repair the end of the thread.... when you put the header on the studs, you need to have it barely on that cut stud, put the nut there and then start to thread it on BEFORE the header goes flush with the head, if you try it after you STILL won't get the nut on even with that cut you just made...@!#$ I should take pictures since I just did this.
Gaskets will leak you need to use COPPER RTV liquid gasket, buy a new Acdelco exhaust gasket, don't use the crap they give you, hell I made my own gaskets out of Mr. Gasket material, they still blew out..... it's a @!#$ pain no matter how you slice it, I really wish I had kept my ceramic pacesetter 4-1 and just installed that.
Don't buy from MANTAPART!!
Oh yeah, you probably will have to reinstall it if you didn't use the copper RTV, that tsudo can leak from the exhaust flange, the 4 to 2 section and the downpipe flange....gaskets might hold for a week or two then start leaking.
Don't buy from MANTAPART!!
i had that problem with my tsudo header also, in the same location, but what i did was get a smaller nut for the exhaust stud then i heated up that tube on the header and hit it with a hammer and made an ever so slight indent so that i could just slip that nut on and so that the exhaust stud didnt hit it.
also air tools make this install much easier GL
Wildcard, wow, that's an extreme way to fix that problem, LOL...what irks me is I talked to 3 people I knew that installed this header and not ONE mentioned this little problem, then after the fact, they are all like "oh yeahhhh", would have been nice to know before I installed it. What I also did was take the nut, and got the dremel with a round sanding bit and ground down that round lip around the bolt for more clearance. The tsudo has given a nice boost to low-midrange torque which is good, but I'm wondering if I should have stuck with the pacesetter 4-1 since the ecotec seems to need more top end (although the midrange is lacking too).
Hey Misuse, in that first pic, the exhaust ports on the header flange look like they have been enlarged/hogged out with a die grinder, did it come like that or did you do that? That might be contributing to your manifold leak and could also have weakend the welds.
Don't buy from MANTAPART!!
The first pic is not mine, I found it on here and circled my problem area. I had heard these were a real bitch to install, that combined with not wanting to drive to the muffler shop sounding like a nascar are why I had the mechanic do it. Regretting it now, especially since it seems I'll have to (re)do it myself anyway. Thanks for the info, I'll get those supplies (including a 24 and some rye) and go at it this weekend. At least I'll get to christen my new socket & driver set.
getting the header on/off is exactly why I switched to an OBX 4-1
its not really as extreme as it sounds but hey it worked so i cant complain,
Quote:
what irks me is I talked to 3 people I knew that installed this header and not ONE mentioned this little problem
i agree with you on that
Misuseofyou wrote:The first pic is not mine, I found it on here and circled my problem area. I had heard these were a real bitch to install, that combined with not wanting to drive to the muffler shop sounding like a nascar are why I had the mechanic do it. Regretting it now, especially since it seems I'll have to (re)do it myself anyway. Thanks for the info, I'll get those supplies (including a 24 and some rye) and go at it this weekend. At least I'll get to christen my new socket & driver set.
Yeah, I wouldn't blame the shop, that nut problem was a bitch.
Some tips, get stainless steel hardware, will make taking it apart easier down the road if you have to...and lockwashers can help when tightening, otherwise you'll need to get two wrenches which is near impossible without a third hand or thin arms...use a new exhaust gasket (ac delco or felpro), clean all gasket surfaces, use the copper rtv, a 1/4" bead... for the 4 to 2 section, 5/8"s bolts I think are on the outside, use 3/8's bolts (or 13mm) for the two center holes or else the bolt heads will almost be touching each other and make it even more impossible to tighten them properly.... you need a 13mm small socket, 13mm long socket, 2 shorty 13mm wrenches and 1 regular 13mm wrench for the exhaust studs and middle bolts of the 4 to 2 section... 2 9/16's wrenches for the outside bolts (one shorty, one regular) of the 4 to 2 section and the two bolts for the downpipe flange....having these tools handy greatly sped things up the 2nd time but this is based on the bolts I bought, just change the wrenches used based on what bolts you get ... you might need a reverse TORX E8 bit for the exhaust studs (that flower pattern on the stud tips) since I found some of the studs came right out, or backed out a bit making them too long..I tried the old 2 nuts on them to tighten the studs, but it didn't work too well, one nut would get stuck on the stud and when I tried to remove it I just pulled the stud out again...Give yourself at least 6 hours, I know it sounds like a lot of time but trust me, you might need it...use something to prop up hood on the battery side since the stock prop will get in your way for sure. Giving you lots of advice so hopefully you don't go through what many of us have with this thing.
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:getting the header on/off is exactly why I switched to an OBX 4-1
Performance wise which did you prefer though and why?
Don't buy from MANTAPART!!
Misuseofyou wrote:I bought this header off ebay for my 2.2 Ecotec. It wasn't called a Tsudo but looks exactly the same. Had it installed by a mechanic along with a full exhaust and Dynomax muffler. It was great for about a week, then I start hearing an exhaust leak where the header meets the engine. When I called the mechanic to talk about it, he said he LEFT A BOLT OUT because the angle of the pipe prevented him from securing it properly. Whole conversation turned bad and he basically told me he was washing his hands of it and to deal with the manufacturer.
Anyway, my question is has anyone ever had this problem of not being able to put a bolt in the area circled below? What kind of damage could this have caused (the leak has gotten worse over the last couple weeks)? I'm taking it to another mechanic this weekend
Not sure on the bolting problem. But it does look kind rough. I'd say it would be best to tighten by hand and then finish off with a GearWrench most likely.
However.... once you get that gasket fixed (which has most likely blown) drive the car long enough to get it all the way warmed up. Then let it cool off completely, then go back through and re-torque all those bolts holding the header on.
www.gmscf.com
Some time ago I took the header off and had a go at it. Resealed with copper rtv on both sides of a gasket, and bolted it back on. Sounds so simple.. but the mechanic stripped the threads out of two bolt holes in addition to leaving another hole empty. It took me a long time. I managed to get a decent seal I thought, and for a while enjoyed having that lost power back. Sounded and felt much better with only a few leaks on the bottom around the flex pipe, then backing out of a driveway I heard it let go. Now its a @!#$ nightmare again. I hate this header, I want to break the mechanic's hands, and really just wish I hadn't @!#$ with anything in the first place. My car sounds like a tractor and moves as slow. I have to fix it.
So, I'm reviving this thread and searching too. Right now I'm in the process of moving, so I cant tackle this son of a bitch for another week. For now though, the plan is to get another gasket, slather it with copper RTV and put copper wire rings around the exhaust ports, between the gasket and head. Last time I used a felpro gasket. This time I'm looking at a Victor multi-layer stainless steel for $50 before tax. I haven't held it in my hands but it sounds good, napa sells it and its more than twice the price of the last one I used. I looked at copper gaskets but it seems to me I should use something with some crush in case the flange is warped.
For the stripped bolt holes I have no ideas other than try endlessly until I finally get them in straight, like last time. You wouldn't believe the angle one of the bolts tries to go in; that one must have taken me half an hour just to get it halfway in. I think they hold once they're in past the destroyed threads. Feel free to chime in on that or any other aspect of this operation.
Oh yeah, the cherry on top is he lost 2 of my oem studs with the torx head and substituted 2 hex head stainless steel bolts. Guess which holes had those?
Couldnt you replace the stud? Then while trying to put the header on is there a way to pull the header away from the head so less of the stud is sticking through the hole and then putting that nut on? From there if that works it could be a lot easier for you to get it on. I dont know if you tried that or not but its a suggestion you can try.
Hmmm weird honestly I think its truly hit or miss with these header I've had problems with mine but none related to the flange it went on pretty smooth up top. My problems were all flex pipe related, I'll see if I can't get a pic of mine but from what I've seen with all equal length headers there not always exactly the same. My d series header on my honda track car is equal length and comparing my buddies to mine there's subtle difference in the way one primarys route. An idea would be get a straight edge and check the header flange for straightness.
Misuseofyou wrote:Some time ago I took the header off and had a go at it. Resealed with copper rtv on both sides of a gasket, and bolted it back on. Sounds so simple.. but the mechanic stripped the threads out of two bolt holes in addition to leaving another hole empty. It took me a long time. I managed to get a decent seal I thought, and for a while enjoyed having that lost power back. Sounded and felt much better with only a few leaks on the bottom around the flex pipe, then backing out of a driveway I heard it let go. Now its a @!#$ nightmare again. I hate this header, I want to break the mechanic's hands, and really just wish I hadn't @!#$ with anything in the first place. My car sounds like a tractor and moves as slow. I have to fix it.
So, I'm reviving this thread and searching too. Right now I'm in the process of moving, so I cant tackle this son of a bitch for another week. For now though, the plan is to get another gasket, slather it with copper RTV and put copper wire rings around the exhaust ports, between the gasket and head. Last time I used a felpro gasket. This time I'm looking at a Victor multi-layer stainless steel for $50 before tax. I haven't held it in my hands but it sounds good, napa sells it and its more than twice the price of the last one I used. I looked at copper gaskets but it seems to me I should use something with some crush in case the flange is warped.
For the stripped bolt holes I have no ideas other than try endlessly until I finally get them in straight, like last time. You wouldn't believe the angle one of the bolts tries to go in; that one must have taken me half an hour just to get it halfway in. I think they hold once they're in past the destroyed threads. Feel free to chime in on that or any other aspect of this operation.
Oh yeah, the cherry on top is he lost 2 of my oem studs with the torx head and substituted 2 hex head stainless steel bolts. Guess which holes had those?
That sucks. but I don't think you read my reply about the nut throughly, would have helped your mechanic I think... Also you DON'T use copper rtv with the multilayer metal gaskets, just use the exhaust gasket, torque down in proper sequence and RE-TORQUE the nuts for the next few heat cycles, they will no doubt get loose again and will cause leaks no-matter what gasket you have there if you don't re-tighten....rings? Wtf... use the rtv for the 4-2 section and the downpipe to catback. You have to fix your studs or you will never get a proper seal there... what year is your car? different years saw different stud lengths, 2002 is fine, 2003 some have longer studs likes mine.. the top right primary backs up against the stud making it impossible to put a nut there.. I had to thread on a nut, cut the stud to where it needed to be to get the nut on... thread off the stud to repair the threads... I also ground down the round ring around the nut for more clearance.
Don't buy from MANTAPART!!
There is no easy ways to get HP, no magic box or gizmo... And if you get more hp, there's no way to make your car still behave and sound like a stock one. More hp usually makes your car louder, more vibrations and harder to drive...but still people hope or think maby there's some magic way to have it all, comfort, stock sound and drive.
I did read it all Fastfire (I should have responded to thank you but uhh), and in the end I had all the bolts in place including 1 ground down stud and nut and 2 stainless steel bolts he put in and I reused. Guess while ranting I wasn't clear on that. So no RTV on the manifold gasket? I'm still leaning towards the copper O rings though. Also, I retightened them all after every drive (once well cooled) for over a week and my seal lasted a month where it was only leaking somewhere around the flex pipe lol. It was the best result I've had with this header so far. Then the seal broke and all of a sudden my engine noise doubled. Right now all torque is gone, its like driving an electric golf cart with half a battery charge.
I bought one a 4:2:1 header off E-bay and it needed me to even up the ports, match port, dremil the gaskets to overlay and line up perfect and prevent any flow blockage and removal of all burrs.
You get what you pay for.
I put a lot of labor to make sure this header would all line up, bolt up correctly and flow evenly as it should.
That header you have looks like someone inaccurately took a drill with stone attachment and went ape with it.
My wife's 2003 Ecotec 2.2 liter Sunfire:
* 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler
* 2 1/4 piping to a 2 1/2 inch resonator
* 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter
* 2 1/2 inch down-pipe
* a match ported 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header
* an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition
* 8 gauge ground wire kit
* Toyz front strut brace
* Vibrant rear strut brace
* and Russell stainless steel brake lines all around.
How many kms before re-torquing is neccessary?
Not km's, HEAT CYCLES.... each time you start car and turn it off and it cools...check the bolts and tighten...do this until they stay tight...I noticed they loosened up a few times.
Don't buy from MANTAPART!!
There is no easy ways to get HP, no magic box or gizmo... And if you get more hp, there's no way to make your car still behave and sound like a stock one. More hp usually makes your car louder, more vibrations and harder to drive...but still people hope or think maby there's some magic way to have it all, comfort, stock sound and drive.
Mike85220 wrote:
That header you have looks like someone inaccurately took a drill with stone attachment and went ape with it.
I agree, but it's not his header, he just used someones pic of theirs.
Don't buy from MANTAPART!!
There is no easy ways to get HP, no magic box or gizmo... And if you get more hp, there's no way to make your car still behave and sound like a stock one. More hp usually makes your car louder, more vibrations and harder to drive...but still people hope or think maby there's some magic way to have it all, comfort, stock sound and drive.
Sorry to revive an old thread but couldn't find an answer anywhere. I just bought a Tsudo header and was wondering what you do to connect it to your catalytic converter after you put the flex pipe in. I know Im going to have to get a shop weld it up, but do you just grind through the cat pipe and clamp it together to drive to the shop or what?
Or you could get it towed. Do you have AAA?
"In Oldskool we trust"
Im from Canada and I do have CAA but I only have one more free tow left and I don't wanna use it on something like a header install.
