I figred id take DOHC_tuner's advice an start another thread continuing the discussion. It was just starting to get interesting.

Clicky!

Stock for stock LG0 is greater than an LD9, but with the same oiling system, head, cams, compression ratio, etc the bore and stroke of the 2.4 will put out more power than the bore and stroke of the 2.3. Stock the LD9 is a sad evoloution of the 2.3.

dont forget..with the shorter stroke of the quad4 the engine is able to "rev up" to its power band faster...which even IF the 2.4 and 2.3 had the same hp the 2.3 would be faster on the track since it would get to its power band sooner than the 2.4
everything has a pro and con

Depends on which LG0... the 95 LG0 is a POS.

Your argument is pretty... well... no nice way to put it

You say, that if you put all the same parts except the bore size and stroke on a 2.3, that the 2.4 is a better engine because of that? That's like painting an apple orange and comparing it to another orange. You aren't comparing the same engine anymore.





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I recently was contemplating a few days ago...LG0 versus an LD9.

If the the LD9 and LG0 all had the same mods and their respective cranks....I still believe the LG0 will take it since it is de stroked. Yet I cant be certain...so I guess Scott's got a challenge once I install W41 cams....LOL

But one thing for certain is the LD9 is an easier motor to work on compared to the Quad 4.


GMR has got nothing on this

Im just saying people say the HO is so much better but I think the 2.4 has much more potential. The 2.3 can rev like crazy but so can the 2.4 if you ditch the ballance shafts. stock for stock the 2.3 is a better design. but if you gonna build a engine you should be looking at potential not what it is stock lol.

scott (section8cav) wrote:dont forget..with the shorter stroke of the quad4 the engine is able to "rev up" to its power band faster...which even IF the 2.4 and 2.3 had the same hp the 2.3 would be faster on the track since it would get to its power band sooner than the 2.4
everything has a pro and con

^hmmm.......yes and no.

Giving gearing what it is the only way to a power band higher than where your at is by acceleration. If the 2.4 has better TQ #'s down low and the 2.3 is still trying/waiting to get to it's powerband...yeah the 2.4 is gonna pull away. Just cause it can rev up faster really doesn't mean @!#$, my weed wacker would dominate if thats all it takes. Honestly road courses are most always won by a combination of suspension and TQ #'s, not much else matters.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:01 PM

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous

Shifted wrote:Depends on which LG0... the 95 LG0 is a POS.

.

LD2*


You need to compare a LD9 WITH OUT ANY LG0 Parts.


OR else i would bring in Scott's "LG0"

One of the BIGGEST reasons for me, was the simplicity, I didn't have to dick around with moding the block for a good oil pump,
didn't have to do a lot of work to get good cams to work, didn't have to do a lot of work to get it to rev out nice.


I like the K.I.S.S. Mentality. I believe it goes along way.

That's just me.

Chris







'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

That is definitely a good argument.....simplicity is always nice.

LG0's have more TQ also.

Just need to keep the damn things reved out above 4K.


IN a race, lets compare STOCK cars.

A 1992 GTZ, loaded 3K lbs, would RAPE a 00-02 Z24 LOADED 3K lbs.

FACT.



Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Yeah thats true too. i was just arguing potetial i guess lol.

DOHC_tuner wrote:

But one thing for certain is the LD9 is an easier motor to work on compared to the Quad 4.

How? there almost (except for the oil pump and PS pump the same thing.)

Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Zs Z wrote:Yeah thats true too. i was just arguing potetial i guess lol.

Then, to get the most, One MUST use parts from both.

IE Scott's 2.6.



Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Dont forget the dam motor mount on the pass. side and that big bracket there....its such a pain. Dam nuts are welded on.


GMR has got nothing on this

hahah nuts are welded cus your supposed to remove the BOLT not the nut lol

and dont ever refer to the 95 quad as an LGO again..its an LD2

and im still confused on what were comparing ? stock to stock ? modded to modded ? potential to potential ?

i mean stock for stock its a no brainer...LGO rapes LD9

modded for modded ...what kind of mods we talkin ? i keep hearing " a ld9 with HO cams" but there are upgrade cams for the LGO as well..wanna compare the engines after BOTH of them get bigger cams ?
anyone ever see an ld9 put down over 15whp with nothing added but a header ???
and then lets put the 086 and HO cams and oil pump on the ld9...and all well put on the quad is the ld9 crank and your entire advantage just went out the window

as for potential? well...that always comes down to pocket depth...we talkin boost? nitrous ? or just all out motor?

its a pointless discussion. they are 2 separate motors and both have their purpose. why not leave it at that?


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

their is no argument here...the ld9 can never beat the LG0 without LG0 parts!!!!! the proof is in the numbers!!!! :

stock for stock LG0 > LD9 (180hp > 150hp)

modded LG0 w/ actual aftermarket parts ie 'rocket parts' as upgrades > modded LD9 with stock replacement LG0 parts as 'upgrades'.

boosted (potential) LG0 564whp recorded street car VS boosted (potential) 486whp recorded street car

the math adds up for me.



Needing 2.3 oil pump stuff? PM me...

I think the only way you can even have a chance with the LD9 is putting on the LGO parts, but then again LGO has quite a few better parts, and better design, but then again alot of the parts of the LGO can go to the LD9, but I don't believe the LD9 can put up the same numbers of the LGO


"As I lay rubber down the street, I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride." -Amen

the only real beneficial thing i see from the LG0 is the freed up power from having no balance shafts. the oiling system appears to be slightly better, but thats a crap load of work to get the 2.3L oil pump on there when apparently the 2.4L melling aftermarket pump has a bigger rotor than the OE pump and helps solve the oiling problem.

really, i have no ambition to put any LG0 parts on my LD9. its just not for me. all this work that people are going through just to get a set of cams in the LD9 when you can easily get a set of LD9 cams reground to what ever specifications you want seems pointless to me.

i respect alot of the research and work thats out there that people have done with the 2.3L/2.4L motors and putting down power. i know some people have produced awesome power doing so (scott's 2.6L stroker for example) but bastardizing 2 motors together has never been for me... ive said in the past i like to work with what ive been given.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

z yaaaa wrote:their is no argument here...the ld9 can never beat the LG0 without LG0 parts!!!!! the proof is in the numbers!!!! :

stock for stock LG0 > LD9 (180hp > 150hp)

modded LG0 w/ actual aftermarket parts ie 'rocket parts' as upgrades > modded LD9 with stock replacement LG0 parts as 'upgrades'.

boosted (potential) LG0 564whp recorded street car VS boosted (potential) 486whp recorded street car

the math adds up for me.

I kinda see the original argument here that the OP was trying to make. The LD9 can make badass power with the LG0's stock parts where the LG0 needs more to keep up. Yeah, you could say upgrade match to upgrade ie: one engine gets a cam the other does too, then yeah the LG0 wins. But the LD9 using the LG0 parts can make more power than the LG0 can with it's own parts. I think that might be what he was trying to say. I guess if you agree with that, then the best of both would be a 2.4 crank in a LG0 and make a 2.5L since ^this statement proves the LG0 suffers from a small stroke where the LD9 crank could fix that right up. Then you got those boosted #'s there which would say otherwise but we all know those engines were way beyond all reasonable mods to even compare to 99% of us around here. That proves the best ultimate, but not necessarily the best bang for the buck. Even tho the LG0 I think takes the bang for the buck too.


"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous

Am I the ONLY guy not running LGO internals with a big build? The only part I have really is the intake manifold... and even then it has a venom intake manifold flange on it lol...

564 whp out of an LGO... I honestly think an LD9 without LGO internals can hit that mark. I wouldn't be pushing myself to keep going if that wasn't the case.

Honestly... potential wise I think the LGO wins. It was built more heavy-duty, has the potential to run much larger cams than the LD9, no balance shafts for a beautiful redline, and the head flows like a complete beast.

It took all the hogging out in the world to get my head to *almost* flow what a H.O head can flow... and even then it didn't match up. Now lets add-up the fact the LGO can run much bigger cams...

Yeah Potential-wise LGO FTW.

BUT... I think a non LGO-internalled LD9 can hit that mark with the right turbo, setup, and tuning. It just takes a lot more money, time, and ingenuity than the LGO.

Final verdict from me - LGO > LD9.

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...