Ive decided to let the quest for performance on the Z sit on the back burner for a while since its running fine. Seems my DD 96 vert is eating more and more oil. I have been given a 95 2.3 that was removed due to some kind of knock. This will be a budget build with performance some what in mind. People say stay away from a 95 2.3 because of the balance shafts. My question is what other than the balance shafts make the 95 junk? I would assume the crank and rods are the same. The head is obviously not as good as a 086.
95' is practically identical to any other LO. The only exceptions I can think of are the cams, cam towers, 33mm lifters, head, power steering, exhaust manifold and oil pump. I believe the pistons are the same, but just so you're aware, HO and LO use different pistons. If you decide to run HO cams, you will run into the same problem of valve-piston clearance as the 086 swapped onto a stock bottom end LD9 has.
The engine itself isn't really "junk" per se, but the fact that you can do a direct swap with any 90-94 quad or LD9 without changing or modifying anything (or very little) pretty much gives the 95' that stigma.
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Thanks Brian, Thats what I figured. I have some LO cams and towers i was gonna put on there and a good deal on some .030 pistons with valve reliefs and 9.5-1 compression (supposedly 88-94). I'll run an MSD cam sync since its sitting under my bed anyways. I'll probably do the oil pump swap. Not sure which power steering pump ill run. If the 95 wasnt free Id prolly go with another 2.4. I figure its less $ to do the oil pump swap than buy another LO or 2.4.
How bout the head? Is it even worth porting?
If you would like a cheap performance build for now, I would say run the secret cams since you're half way there with the cams you already have. Either use the head you have or go to the yard and pull an HO head (086 or 753). If you trust your metal working skills, try port matching both sides' ports. And ONLY polish the exhaust side. For a little more kick in the pants, have the face of the head milled down about .010'' for some higher compression. If you plan on running HO or W41 cams in the end, you will definitely wanna measure those valve to piston clearances!! You can run without the cam sensor if need be. But It sounds like you might already have that handled. As for the power steering, the secret cam intake has the hex drive so it will eliminate the hassle of the rigging up the whole 2.3 crap. IMO, the oil pump swap is a tricky swap. Don't know much about it but I wouldn't think the removal of the balance shafts could increase power that dramatically. Too much work for a lot of vibration. I don't plan on revving it like a Honda anyways! Good luck and I hope that was helpful.
Thanks for the advice. Kinda the same things I had going on in my head. Just wasnt sure. Ive read a lot but not much on the 95.
wow..alot of info..some correct, some not.....
first off...using HO pistons in a 95 quad would be no different than any other quad..they ALL had the same piston sizes(just in different compressions) and they all had the same stroke
if your gonna use the 95 block the first thing youll wanna do is throw those balance shafts out and put the HO oil pump in. get some 10:1 pistons or Higher and find an older head like the 086 with a set of HO cams...if you cant find a set let me know..i can get them for you.
what pcm are you gonna run all this on ??
scott (section8cav) wrote:wow..alot of info..some correct, some not.....
first off...using HO pistons in a 95 quad would be no different than any other quad..they ALL had the same piston sizes(just in different compressions) and they all had the same stroke
if your gonna use the 95 block the first thing youll wanna do is throw those balance shafts out and put the HO oil pump in. get some 10:1 pistons or Higher and find an older head like the 086 with a set of HO cams...if you cant find a set let me know..i can get them for you.
what pcm are you gonna run all this on ??
That's not at all what I said Scott. I said if you use the "HO CAMS" with a stock 95' bottom end you will run into the valve-piston clearance issue because of lack of valve reliefs in LO pistons. HO pistons have reliefs on one side (intake if I remember correctly) to accommodate the .410" lift cams.
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Also, it bothers me to no end how people refer to parts as HO when they are in no way unique to that engine. The oil pump is the same on the SOHC as the LO, HO and W41 Quad4 engines. There is no "HO" oil pump. The same can be said about the "HO throttle body." They all share the same 56mm TB. I know you already know all of this Scott, but it's just kind of a pet peeve...plus you tried to call me out on false info
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Yeah I was considering HO cams and an 086 head, still not sure since i already have a set of LO cams under my bed. Im not going for all out power just a lil pep for a daily driver. Im highly considering the oil pump swap tho. My car is a 96 so unless I am lucky I am going to have to re-pin for a 97 ecu. I have HP tuners and a wideband i bought for the Z. I havnt played with the wideband yet but I have played with HPtuners software, I adjusted timing to get rid of knock and adjust for larger injectors when I did the 086 swap on the Z.
Whalesac wrote:scott (section8cav) wrote:wow..alot of info..some correct, some not.....
first off...using HO pistons in a 95 quad would be no different than any other quad..they ALL had the same piston sizes(just in different compressions) and they all had the same stroke
if your gonna use the 95 block the first thing youll wanna do is throw those balance shafts out and put the HO oil pump in. get some 10:1 pistons or Higher and find an older head like the 086 with a set of HO cams...if you cant find a set let me know..i can get them for you.
what pcm are you gonna run all this on ??
That's not at all what I said Scott. I said if you use the "HO CAMS" with a stock 95' bottom end you will run into the valve-piston clearance issue because of lack of valve reliefs in LO pistons. HO pistons have reliefs on one side (intake if I remember correctly) to accommodate the .410" lift cams.
Oh?
Last time I had them side by side (not that I have....oh ya, I do have stock LD2\LG0 pistons everywhere) the dish in the LD2 piston was as deep as the "cut" in the LG0 piston was...
I think you would be fine, If you want to cheek, put some putty one a piston, then turn the cam over when the head is on with no gasket by hand, see how much room you have.
Do that with a compressed head gasket or none at all, factor in this though when your worrying about clearance issues.
Math is key.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
ah ha! thanks chris hehe
and i refered to the pump as an "HO pump" simply cus saying "HO" was shorter than saying"a pump from a pre 1994 2.3 quad 4"
and Zs Z ...if you want an engine thats no stronger than a stock 2.4 go ahead and put LO cams in and keep the stock head..youll come out with a 155hp engine
....if you want some power get the HO stuff
so then i can switch my cylinder head for a 086 head and use my same cams without having any issues or what?
I'm not going to sit here and keep arguing, but I'll say one last thing and let it be: a dish and a relief are two very different things. Notice how close to the edges the reliefs are on a LG0 piston.
Regardless, even if the dish did come all the way out to the edges like a relief, you could still have problems. There could even be a deep enough dish, that there is a hole going straight through the piston, and yet you could still have piston-valve clearance issues. Here is an example of a dish with the same depth as the relief, assuming also that dish comes out close to the edge like a relief, and yet there would still be piston-valve clearance issues.
The picture is not completely accurate, because there should be a llittle wider angle on the relief to accomodate the piston traveling away from the valve at the same time, but it gives the general idea. And yes, if you want to try HO cams with LO pistons, then check the clearance with putty first.
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i understand what your getting at man...i cant give you a hard time?
and i totally agree with the putty non the less
^^^^^^ I know you were Scott
, but Chris's smart-ass remark kind of set me off. I have no ill feelings towards either of you, but I felt the need to make my point very clear.
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So everyone knows what everyone means. Cool. Good thing we have each other to straighten ourselves out, huh?
i guess the main thing i want you to get out of this is THIS : LO cams on a 2.4 are a power upgrade..LO cams on an LOengine(aka95) are merely STOCK CAMS ..you have to realize HALF of the secret cam swap comes from the 95..so by putting any kind of lo cam on a 95 quad is simply installing stock parts and will in no way make the engine stronger..if you want power out of it you need HO cams at least. ....the pistons and head and other things are debatable.
ok..i have just been informed by a Very reliable source (Gilles AKA Mfk223) that HO cams Can be ran with LO pistons. he said he has done it in the past without any problems.
That is a good point. Guess ill add HO cams to the parts list, a used set is not that much money and worth the HP. And of course use putty to test clearance.
scott (section8cav) wrote:ok..i have just been informed by a Very reliable source (Gilles AKA Mfk223) that HO cams Can be ran with LO pistons. he said he has done it in the past without any problems.
Fair enough. I trust Gilles's word.
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But not mine in saying that the LO\LD2 dish is AS DEEP AS THE "CUT" AKA VALVE RELIEF is?
Funny
(also, and get this. .450 lift cams can be ran with stock 10:1 pistons.... there is room.)
again, not that I have done that.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:But not mine in saying that the LO\LD2 dish is AS DEEP AS THE "CUT" AKA VALVE RELIEF is?
Funny
(also, and get this. .450 lift cams can be ran with stock 10:1 pistons.... there is room.)
again, not that I have done that.
Chris
You said nothing about using LO pistons with HO cams, Chris. If you had said you've done that, then I would be willing to accept your word no different than Gilles or any of your TG buddies. All you did was make a ridiculous speculation that has absolutely no geometric merit whatsoever. I already proved to you how different valve reliefs and a dish are, even at the same depth. I could mathematically prove how a parabolic cut (or even a cylindrical cut) dish and a straight line relief are two different things if that would make you feel better. I just thought a picture would be easier to accept.
If anything I have said offends you in any way, take it up with me in PM. I'm done jacking Cory's thread.
....Oh, and sorry for jacking your thread Cory
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95 has LO pistions....
I don't need Geometry for that I am holding in my hands.
Yelk, its a good thing your my Brother... cuz that could have sounded gay
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
and here's the thing thats really going to shrivel a few noodles...
HO cams (brand new HO cams), stock 2.4 head, wiseco 10.5:1 pistons with valve reliefs... plenty of clearance.
You look so much cuter with something in your mouth.
