so I've been looking up power steering pumps, different plumbing setups, and different options in order to re-locate the pump on the skwirl.
during my searches, I've come across a couple different manufacturer's websites and on Unisteer's website they have a form for having a custom steering rack made (manual)
After investigating, I saw a GP on a nissan forum for about $399.
This is a true, manual rack that will be no harder than a stock PS equiped car. The only downside is since they have to alter the ratio, it'll be more turns of the steering wheel from lock to lock.
would anybody else be interested in getting in on this? I don't know the price for sure since I haven't called them directly yet but I plan on doing that tomorrow.
manual racks reduce the weight of the vehicle by eliminating the PS pump and simplify plumbing by eliminating the hoses and reservoir. It also improves road feel and control over the vehicle (for those doing road racing or autocross) but keep in mind, again, greater turns from lock to lock.
Unisteer may offer some other options to us, again I haven't spoken directly with them.
If anybody has any questions please post it up. Lemme know anything you'd want me to ask Unisteer, and if there's a lot of interest I'll see about setting up a GP.
Since I'm pretty sure the column and rack and pinion didn't change from 95-05, this would fit any year 3rd gen jbody.
I'd be interested depending on price.
2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R
x3
<img src="http://www.majhost.com/gallery/HCAJosh/crap/shooshined.jpg">
- putting the pieces back together -
i'll let you guys know the details tomorrow. I'll be calling them once I wake up before work.
im in. keep us posted man
Yhea it will be harder, but as soon you get the tire moving it becomes as light as PS, you'll also get more feel too. Also the higher the ratio the lighter it is at a stop. I've notice that Michelins works best with the manual racks.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
I would like to see something as well!
listening
____________________________________
Primer Counts as Custom Paint Right?
BTW: This is my Sig.
Im listening skwirly .. this would be good for quad 4s since ours is a belt driven pump...not only would it help with weight and space but give alittle on the power band as well since i wont need the pulley and belt anymore
definitely interested, post up some prices when you hear back from them!
I called a bit later (5 minutes ago) and I assume they've gone for the day since its so close to 5pm. I'll try again tomorrow.
but here's a list I came up with of basic questions I want to ask:
Custom rack for a cavalier (manual conversion)
-stock lock to lock is 2 2/3 turns (this is so we can choose a ratio thats a good balance between lock to lock and steering effort)
-what ratios available?
-Cost? What about for multiple buyers (group purchase)?
-Could I send a complete rack and pinion setup (minus tie rods) to have measurements taken by Unisteer?
soon as I get in touch with them I'll be updating this thread so stay tuned guys.
interested depending on price.
oh @!#$ yes, you'd better believe im in.
failing to prepare is preparing to fail.
Would this allow us to use an LSJ or LE5 head since we no longer need an opening for the power steering pump?
^^ the LE5 head would be all sorts of issues, and you can use the LSJ head with our stock power steering pump (it has the keyway in the cam, and the flange and everything)
but if you want to eliminate the power seering pump, lines, reservoir, etc but still be able to physically turn your car (regardless of what engine you're using)then this is the ticket.
manual racks also have slightly better steering feedback. But again, you will have more turns lock to lock than a stock PS rack. How many more I'm not sure I need to talk to Unisteer still.
lets get a list going (just on initial interest basis)
I'll be letting everyone know the price as soon as I talk with unisteer, but figure about $399 or so.
1.) Daflyinskwirl (PJ)
2.)
3.)
4.)
5.)
6.)
7.)
8.)
9.)
10.)
So if there is no PS, how does this unit make up for the work the driver would need to put in without the PS assist?
How much difference is there in the feel with this compared to a PS setup? Besides the lock-to-lock ratio?
ihavenolife000 wrote:So if there is no PS, how does this unit make up for the work the driver would need to put in without the PS assist?
How much difference is there in the feel with this compared to a PS setup? Besides the lock-to-lock ratio?
lock to lock is not the ratio.
the ratio effects lock to lock.
in simpler terms, to turn the steering wheel all the way from full left to full right, is 2 and 2/3 turns of the steering wheel.
in other words, if you're going all the way left, you have to turn the wheel 2.66 times to go all the way right.
the ratio (whatever it is) is what effects this.
A power unit can have a smaller ratio because it has the assist of a hydraulic pump (the power steering pump)
a manual unit uses a larger ratio so it doesn't need the assist of a hydraulic pump. It gives the driver more leverage on the rack through the steering wheel, thus giving you the ability to turn the vehicle on your own without the help of a pump.
Since a manual rack uses a larger ratio, it means that it will take more turns of the steering wheel to go from full left to full right (lock-to-lock)
It won't feel the same as a power steering unit either, you'll get more feedback in the wheel and "feel" what its doing more (I've never driven a manual racked car before so I'm not sure how to elaborate), but everyone I've heard talk about both systems seem to prefer a non power unit.
it will feel slightly harder to turn the wheel, and it'll be more turns from lock to lock (full left to full right, or vice versa) but you can eliminate the pump, hoses, etc reducing weight of the vehicle and eliminating the drag of the ps pump on the engine.
since our cars are relatively light, a manual rack with a ratio close to stock (its going to be higher nevertheless) may not be too hard to deal with.
to further beat this to death, if you've ever removed your ps pump before, or removed the belt spinning it or bypass it however you so choose, but don't change the rack its going to be VERY hard to turn the car. You can try it right now, put the key in the ignition, turn it (BUT DO NOT START THE ENGINE) to the on position, and try to turn the steering wheel.
Typically for any racing application you'll notice the general push to decrease the lock-to-lock numbers. A good auto-X or track car will have 0.75x lock-to-lock, this gives the driver the ability to go from full left to full right without ever removing your hands from their positions in typical circumstances. Not saying a manual rack with a high lock-to-lock may not bring some advantages, which it will but I'd imagine by the time you lower the ratio(which will basically enhance slop, since it takes more deflection to initiate the rack) you will be no better than using the stock rack in stock ratio and just plumbing the supply and discharge PS Fluid lines together. -has been done and works pretty well, making the PS rack a manual and not spending a dime save for some simple plumbing fittings.
The direction I'd rather go I think is try to fab-up brackets to use an off the shelf "steering-quickener" or have a GP on a custom one that may mount off the rack to lower the ratio while keeping the PS, which will decrease the slop of the existing rack. You may still not see the "road-feel" like you may get with a manual rack but I'd imagine the deflection initiation by decreasing the factory ratio would satisfy while still giving ease of steering. They even make steering-quickeners that you come with several gear-sets that you can change out to go from a 1:1 all the way to like a 3:1, with 2:1 being the standard. That would take our setup, obvisously, to a 1.33 turn lock-to-lock.....maybe nice......
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:
to further beat this to death, if you've ever removed your ps pump before, or removed the belt spinning it or bypass it however you so choose, but don't change the rack its going to be VERY hard to turn the car. You can try it right now, put the key in the ignition, turn it (BUT DO NOT START THE ENGINE) to the on position, and try to turn the steering wheel.
No, not the same, you have LOTS of added restriction and is NOT a good representation of running your factory rack with the lines just run into each other. When you turn the wheel without the car on with a PS rack you are "sucking" the PS fluid through the pump which adds to the force required to turn the wheel. Look on the Q4 forums and you will find lots of people who plumbed lines together and mention how its not near as hard as before with the key in the on position and the car off. A good number of people have done this mod and like the results.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:32 PM
<table>hello</table>
Quote:
A good number of people have done this mod and like the results.
like who? Who on the org has done this specifically?
I have no PS pump on the skwirl at the moment, and while the lines aren't run together, they're swinging in the breeze and its still pretty hard to turn the steering wheel when I move the car around.
I'm pretty sure you're supposed to remove the inner seals as well to further reduce resistance.
the quickener idea is interesting. Let me do some digging and I'll post back in a bit.
I could try modifying my stock rack first and report back the results instead.
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:Quote:
A good number of people have done this mod and like the results.
like who? Who on the org has done this specifically?
c'mon man.....read the post...............
Joshua Dearman wrote:Look on the Q4 forums and you will find lots of people who plumbed lines together and mention how its not near as hard as before with the key in the on position and the car off.
I've never heard of removing the inner seals...maybe something there. I never said it would be easy to turn the wheel either, I was just simply throwing the pro's vs. con's man. Decrease the ratio / increase slop...simple. How bad? - who knows until you try. I really think quickeners would be the best bet with keeping the PS....ease of steering(harder than stock but probably less than a manual rack with a stock ratio) along with reduction of slop since you increase the ratio.
Joshua Dearman wrote:DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:Quote:
A good number of people have done this mod and like the results.
like who? Who on the org has done this specifically?
c'mon man.....read the post...............
Joshua Dearman wrote:Look on the Q4 forums and you will find lots of people who plumbed lines together and mention how its not near as hard as before with the key in the on position and the car off.
I've never heard of removing the inner seals...maybe something there. I never said it would be easy to turn the wheel either, I was just simply throwing the pro's vs. con's man. Decrease the ratio / increase slop...simple. How bad? - who knows until you try. I really think quickeners would be the best bet with keeping the PS....ease of steering(harder than stock but probably less than a manual rack with a stock ratio) along with reduction of slop since you increase the ratio.
i was rushing before I had my gf lookin over my shoulder (you know how it is)
you bring up a very valid point tho.. I even found an intermediate steering shaft on ebay. I've been looking at quickeners and it SEEMS as though they'd fit right inbetween the yolks with little problem. I'd have to make a custom bracket to fit onto the subframe but that doesn't scare me much.
I take it by mounting the quickener inverted you can decrease the ratio without getting too much slop? It would be no power assist, and 5 1/3 turns from lock to lock.
josh if you're online IM me on aim
idk josh looking around a bit I've seen a few people say that a full on manual rack is better than a looped PS rack in terms of feel AND slop.
I'll be calling unisteer tomorrow for sure to get some answers. But it seems to be that effort while sitting still is going to be fairly high, while effort when moving shouldn't be too bad..
The s10 we had a while back had a manual rack and it was fine on the street. It wasn't bad for dd and drag use, but I wouldn't reconmend a manual rack for an auto-x car only a cruiser/project or drag car.....but then again that was rwd w/ a spool not a fwd car.
