Im thinking of rebuilding my valvetrain with all Partiot Performance parts. It's way cheaper than Ferrara products. Any body had experience with there parts? I know their heads are good, but I havent heard anything about just their valvetrain products.
"You can only feed them semen for so long before their legs fall off."
i have heard nothing good about the patriot valvetrain parts.....
The stuff is TO cheap.....
$1200 full head with valvetrain from them.
-$1000 bare head no valvetrain from them.
----------------------------------------------
$200 valve train
so doing the math, valvetrain looks pretty cheap to me.... there is a reason ferrera is so expensive
Yeah, that's what I was wondering. $8 per/valve seems really cheap. I just didnt know if it was like pacesetter where they could make the same quality product for a better price.
"You can only feed them semen for so long before their legs fall off."
Its not necessarily that the valvetrain is BAD, so much as its just not good enough to keep up with what the head could do. PJ was revving his patriot head to 7900 repeatedly with his setup, and when something finally broke, it was the factory hydraulic lash adjuster, and not any of the patriot components.... The thing is the Patriot springs are only good for I think .450" lift, so you have to make sure your cams are under that or you'll wind up wrecking something when the springs bind. Comp Stage 3's for instance, are .490" lift if I recall correctly, and will very quickly break something if you're running Patriot stuff. If I were you, I'd go with parts from Ferrea, Supertech, Comp, Crane, Crower, or of course GMPP(not saying that all these companies have eco parts but they are at least trustworthy brands in the world of performance valvetrains). Things like intakes, headers and exhaust are ok to cheap out on, because if they break, all you have to replace is the intake/header/exhaust. If you break something in the valvetrain, just once, its going to cost you more than if you had just ponied up for the good stuff in the first place because chances are you'll drop a valve and wreck the head and the shortblock.. When it comes to anything inside the engine, heed these words: SPEND THE MONEY TO DO IT RIGHT. Or you'll be sorry....
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
I love how everyone can say they've heard bad things about it on this site when no one has ever posted about part failure.
Do you know how many people have actually used this head? Because I have a very good idea of the number being the #1 seller of the heads.
Know how many have broken a Patriot part on it? NONE.
Hell I sheared a timing gear off and still could only manage to BEND 2 Patriot valves. I popped a ringland off my piston and the stock head lost 2 valves permanently.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Jersey where are you getting those numbers from because Patriot doesn't release most of them. I have the comp stage 3's with the patriot setup. The comp cams only have a .456 lift, not 490 and the patriot valvetrain does have a dual spring. I'll know how it handles it soon enough since it should be running sometime soon. I've heard a lot of speaking poorly about these heads with little to no info to back it up. If the failure posts exist please link me to them so I can see what the problem really is.
When I did a google search prior to purchasing this head there we're many F-body guys who had issues with springs breaking/cracking. Since then patriot has resolved that issue and a lot of them still use the heads.
12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62
Patriot has changed a bunch of their suppliers in the recent past because of some F-Body failure issues. I haven't seem problems since they did that unless someone was using the wrong setup for their cam and build.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
the patriot head would have done the same in the case of cracking a ringland......
However, you have a good point, who has had a Failure of a part that is not because of human error?
(Jason, this is just the keep up the status que,)
weird how a LG0 can rev to 8300, on stock parts and not fail....
First Gen FTW!
( I have some 3400 heads if ya want them...)
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
If anyone is interested in QUALITY valve train stuff for the eco let me know, I'm selling all of the GMPP valve train stuff brand new....
Hypsy (The Trucking One) wrote:I love how everyone can say they've heard bad things about it on this site when no one has ever posted about part failure.
JerseyJayLN2 (Scarab) wrote:Its not necessarily that the valvetrain is BAD, so much as its just not good enough to keep up with what the head could do. PJ was revving his patriot head to 7900 repeatedly with his setup, and when something finally broke, it was the factory hydraulic lash adjuster, and not any of the patriot components.... The thing is the Patriot springs are only good for I think .450" lift, so you have to make sure your cams are under that or you'll wind up wrecking something when the springs bind. Comp Stage 3's for instance, are .490" lift if I recall correctly, and will very quickly break something if you're running Patriot stuff. If I were you, I'd go with parts from Ferrea, Supertech, Comp, Crane, Crower, or of course GMPP(not saying that all these companies have eco parts but they are at least trustworthy brands in the world of performance valvetrains). Things like intakes, headers and exhaust are ok to cheap out on, because if they break, all you have to replace is the intake/header/exhaust. If you break something in the valvetrain, just once, its going to cost you more than if you had just ponied up for the good stuff in the first place because chances are you'll drop a valve and wreck the head and the shortblock.. When it comes to anything inside the engine, heed these words: SPEND THE MONEY TO DO IT RIGHT. Or you'll be sorry....
Thats what I had heard of....Last I heard the cause of the breakage was still undetermined. I am not saying that patriot valve train is garbage....I am saying a $200 performance valve train makes me nervous.....How GOOD can it be?? That is my reasoning.
I think it would be fine for quite a few people running mild setups (within the operating specs of the patriot equipment), and not going crazy driving them. For someone like PJ....no way. That guy is CRAZY (but in a good way).
Hypsy, since you seem to be heavily defending the product....and by the sounds of it, selling it also, why dont you tell us why this is better than something 3-4 times as costly from companies like Ferrea, Supertech, Comp, Crane, Crower, or GMPP?? I dont know who all makes ECO components from that list, but they are trusted names in the valve train business. If scarab is correct, it sounds to me like Patriot can not hold up to something "off the shelf" like the stage 3 cams.
I don't see where anyone claimed the patriot valvetrain was better than the other brands. What we're looking for is proof of failure to back up your original statement of only hearing bad things about it.
Apparently you can't produce anything to back up your statement, aside from your opinion having never dealt with it which is worthless.
12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62
When I posted my origional statement, I did not know the culprit of this failure:
Quote:
PJ was revving his patriot head to 7900 repeatedly with his setup, and when something finally broke, it was the factory hydraulic lash adjuster, and not any of the patriot components
was due to a factory component, last I heard they were thinking it was a patriot part.
I am just asking for some numbers, tests, etc, that will say that this $200 valvetrain will hold up against the same abuse that one 3-4 times the cost will.
I never said it was better, ever, just that it hasn't failed yet. Ever hear off selling below cost to make a sale? Just because theirs a $200 difference in the prices doesn't mean that's what the parts cost. I know the list price of both heads as well as what it costs to make them.
All I'll say is it's not a $200 valve train.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
You are right....you didnt say that.
Yes, I have heard of taking a loss for a sale, but it is very rarely seen anymore, by manufacturers especially.
on patriots website, they list the springs in the head only able to accept .400 valve lift before binding.
straight from patriot's website:
Quote:
Combustion Chamber: 53cc
Intake Runner: 173cc
Exhaust Runner: 75cc
Intake Valve: 1.420"
Exhaust Valve: 1.225"
Max. Valve Spring Lift: 0.400"
Retainer Material: Titanium
Valve Seal Material: Viton
Valve Job: 5-angle
most aftermarket cams for the eco take it over .400 and a few (like the comp stage 3s) up to .456 which is enough to make the patriot head bind (I think)
my personal experience; I loaded stage 3 cams in the patriot head. I double checked that my rockers were aligned properly before firing it up. It didn't last a single cycle. I pulled the valve cover off and discovered that two of the rockers on the same cylinder jumped out of place.. whether or not I bent valves I have no idea.. I haven't torn the head down to inspect the damage yet.
but the general concensus is: the patriot casting is OK (the GM head outflows it) and the valvetrain is still questionable.
frankly, I'd go with a GM unit since they have the R&D and its their engine. I've also seen some patriot heads having issues with the rockers not contacting the "lifters" (proper name: lash adjusters) but what causes this I'm not yet sure.. haven't run into that yet personally.
^^ There ya go... thats what I get for trying to quote figures from memories of long, winding technical conversations with PJ... my bad.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
JerseyJayLN2 (Scarab) wrote:^^ There ya go... thats what I get for trying to quote figures from memories of long, winding technical conversations with PJ... my bad.
you still have an invitation to the fun-vee
Darkstars,
Still selling valvetrain? How much? Gonna look into Patriot after reading this post. Just bought stage 3 cams. Ferrea is very expsensive definitely.
"FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DRIVE STOCK"
