this is spreading like wildfire

DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - APU wrote:this is spreading like wildfire

yep. will that fit in our bay tho?


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my carDomain updated 11/5/07 I've got premium. Yes I do. I've got premium. How 'bout you?

We'll know soon enough lol.... No way with the over-horn injection, but just with airhorns, probably.... may need a shorter radiator so you're not sucking the hot air right out of it, but getting a custom rad or adapting a rad from another car isn't really that hard.




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said

I dont feel safe with that injector placement. Other than that......Awesome

^^ thats for race only. secondary injection that takes over at higher rpm

I doubt anyone here other than myself and maybe one or two others would fork over the cash for that setup.

I'm already in contact with kinsler

This kit with some stage 2 or 3 cams should finally give n/a ecotecs an edge over boosted ones. I can't wait to see some dyno numbers.

Does anyone know what those staged injectors would be for? Only thing I can think of is for running boost, but boost on ITB's?

that's quite possibly the silliest way to inject fuel that I have ever seen.

-Impeded air flow from the rail and injectors
-farther distance for the fuel to travel to the valve
-added weight from all of those extra brackets needed to hold the rail and injectors.

They should have just made it so that the runners have bungs to fit injectors (like practically every ITB setup out there has). That would also allow the option of having a filtered ITB if you felt like running around with it on the street. It certainly is nice however, that you ECO guys are getting all of these different performance options now.


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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.

^^thats probably the silliest reply i've ever read.

external mount injectors is how F1 did/does it
in a race application, it has the potential to make more horsepower due to better atomization.. but this is just what I've read... and the mechanics of it I can't fully explain because I don't wholly understand, but there's many high power all motor cars running an injector setup like that

here's a video of an F1 engine being run thru a dyno test.. it shows the external injectors

the only problem is the audio doesn't sync up to the video.. but you'll get the idea
renault F1 engine - external injectors in action

again, that is an extra option (the extra injectors) and you can just run with your factor location

you actually get a better mix of fuel and air when the injectors are placed that far back , as said its something best suited for high rpm race use not street use

as far as weight , i wouldnt be surprised if it barely weighed more than the stock parts its replacing


as far as fitting , might have to tilt the radiator forward and cut the bar above the radiator some and figure out how to direct air to it

that's crazy... I've heard that it's the way to go but I'd rather just boost it. Awesome find for NA ecos though!

Pilz-E wrote:I still dream of the day when I can do a rear-engine, rear drive V12 in my sunflower.

DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - APU wrote:^^thats probably the silliest reply i've ever read.

external mount injectors is how F1 did/does it
in a race application, it has the potential to make more horsepower due to better atomization.. but this is just what I've read... and the mechanics of it I can't fully explain because I don't wholly understand, but there's many high power all motor cars running an injector setup like that

here's a video of an F1 engine being run thru a dyno test.. it shows the external injectors

the only problem is the audio doesn't sync up to the video.. but you'll get the idea
renault F1 engine - external injectors in action

again, that is an extra option (the extra injectors) and you can just run with your factor location

Fair enough...but the F1 engine doesn't have the rail directly over the horns, nor are the injectors practically inside the horn. Both are set off at an angle, allowing the air directly above the horn to travel towards the runner unimpeded. I'll accept defeat, though.


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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.

I see what you're saying.. in all reality it doesn't effect any one of us here. nobody's at that level of performance yet.

I just got off the phone with scott @ kinsler. The wheels are in motion.

very nice guy, answered all my questions.. now all I need to do is sell a few organs and get this on the skwirl

i dont see that setup (with the injectors) even working on the street... hell i even have a hard time seeing it on twistys.

one would think that the fuel would be sloshing all over inside those runners, hell i could even see some running out. if the setup were stood on end like it is in the pic, but it wont be on our cars, it would be sideways.

yeah your more than likely going to end up with a motor soaked in gas if your going around tight corners with the gas on hard. that's a scary thought but I could deffinatly see a purpose on the 1/4 mile...

Pilz-E wrote:I still dream of the day when I can do a rear-engine, rear drive V12 in my sunflower.

there won't be any more sloshing around than there would be with normal itb's and the fuel injected in our stock location. First of all, the fuel is being injected at a high enough velocity and pressure and close enough to the horn that there is no chance of it spraying all over the place. Plus, the spray pattern will be designed so it goes into the horn instead of around. Also, the vacuum and the air velocity will make sure it gets pulled into the motor. It's not like the vavles stop opening after you jump off the throttle either. So anything that gets left in the head gets pulled into the motor when you get off the throttle and there is no more fuel coming in. The only thing that might cause fuel to build up before the throttle plate would be a little delay in the injector stopping when you jump off the throttle, but it will be very little fuel that would be sitting there. Mounting the fuel rail directly in front of the air horn, however, I don't see a reason for. You do need turbulence to mix the fuel, but that is not a good place to do it, plus there will be more than enough turbulence in the head to do that.

Sorry if none of this makes sense, I am tired and my brain is fried. But it did make sense in my head

you guys aren't serious right?

you know what F1 racing is, correct? they've used setups like this for a long time... and they take turns pretty tight last I checked.

I'm shocked some of you don't remember the basics... if you stuck your hand in front of the velocity stack when those injectors are firing it would suck your arm in. the same goes for the fog of fuel... it isn't going to go anywhere except down the runner and into the engine.

if you watch the F1 video, you'll see that fuel coming out of the injector isn't like coming out of a hose, its a very fine mist

but again, this is a moot point.. at the power levels people are at all motor, its not very useful but in the future it could prove to be someone's next step in making more power.

idk to me it also seems pretty dangerous having the fuel open like that... you get into a wreck and one of them bad boys gets thrown outta wack... sparks, and WAM your dead.

Any one heard of a price?

which is why it says for race use only

again. stated about as well. those injectors are SECONDARY. its not like they are your primary injector, they are just there to aid in the higher rpms giving you more fuel, and a better mixture.

I have seen a car with velocity stacks before and they do suck the air in very rapidly so I guess your right that it wouldn't get out of the horn.. Yes I have seen F1 it's my 2nd favorite form of racing next to WRC and you're right they take turns much harder than any j-body could even think about. Race only is no joke with those things though it just seems dangerous for street purposes.

Question about ITB's though... Your obviously not running an air filter! Does that hurt your motor? Wouldn't you want something to stop small particles of crap from going into your motor or is it that when you're running that setup you just don't care anymore because your going for straight performance?

Pilz-E wrote:I still dream of the day when I can do a rear-engine, rear drive V12 in my sunflower.

Tinkles wrote:Any one heard of a price?

Not cheap by any means.... Ive talked to Kinsler about this a long time ago. They have so many different versions of the setup that its hard to give a price unless you know what you want.... it starts around 2700$ and up I think.... and all the way up to close to 4500$ with everything out there.....

ZOIKS!!! idk if its worth it...

pj, i think you could get deep into the 13's without them. unless you want to go faster then that n/a??? lol

$2700?

I was expecting more along the lines of $1200-1500 max for an inline 4 setup.


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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.