Project engine simulation. Need all LD9 Specs to make engine profile. Note this is NOT Desktop Dyno - Performance Forum

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Project engine simulation. Need all LD9 Specs to make engine profile. Note this is NOT Desktop Dyno
Sunday, September 16, 2007 3:16 PM
I have my hands on a more professional engine simulator, I've used it in the past, and Its predicted within 4 WHP on a past V6 turbo project.

I'm willing to make an engine profile, and employ it for the use of people on the forum.

I will rate on a scale of 1-10 its accuaracy dealing with particular engine components so you can get an idea.

- Block dynamics: 9.5
- Heads : 9
- Cams: 7.5
- Valvetrain: 8
- Exhaust manifolds/headers: 8
- Intake manifolds : 8
- Turbocharging: 7
- Supercharging: 8
- Super + Turbocharging: 7
- Nitrous: 8
- Minor mods like intake and cat back exhausts: 3 ( the software kinda ignores parameters here and thus go from CFM settings. So please do not ask me what your stock Ecotec cavi will do with an intake and cat back. If you have a header paired with that exhaust it would be better to determine power output changes.
- Tuning and knock calcuations: 7.5
- Different fuel types: 8.5

The program is quite detailed. Down to weighing valvetrain components.


So. All the data I can get. I'm going to use the flow bench numbers from the other thread for the head.
But I could use stock exhaust manifold runner length and diameter. I could use the same for the intake manifold.
I need the lift, duration, and well all the cam specs.
Valvetrain component weights and spring rates if possible ( this is actually quite important as springs can rob you of lots of power )

I also would require Timing advance numbers.


I can do this with the ecotec as well, or well... Any motor. I've created probably 800-900 engine profiles with this program, and each time I use it it becomes more and more accurate ( because I know how the math works on it )...

SO. Its fun for me, and useful for you guys. !
I'll post an estimate of a stock Ld9 without any hard numbers, and we will see how close I can get.

Re: Project engine simulation. Need all LD9 Specs to make engine profile. Note this is NOT Desktop
Sunday, September 16, 2007 3:31 PM
Here's everything I have on the LD9 (99 model year). Hope this has what you need. Its in both english and metric, so whatever your program uses...

Engine Mechanical Specifications

General Data

Engine Type
Inline 4 Cylinder

Displacement
2.4 L
146 CID

Regular Production Option (RPO) Code LD9 VIN Code T

Bore
90 mm
3.54 in

Stroke
94 mm
3.70 in

Compression Ratio
9.5 to 1

Firing Order
1-3-4-2

Balance Shafts

Balance Shaft Chain Guide Wear Maximum Groove Depth.
2.5 mm
0.100 in

Bearing Clearance
0.044-0.111 mm
0.0017-0.0044 in

Bearing ID
30.019-30.061 mm
1.1819-1.1835 in

Bearing Thickness
1.500-1.508 mm
0.0590-0.0593 in

Bore Roundness
0.025 mm
0.0009 in

Chain Slack, with 3 lb of Pressure Applied to the Guide
1.0 mm
0.040 in

Endplay
0.185-0.455 mm
0.0073-0.0179 in

Gear Backlash
0.074-0.147 mm
0.0029-0.0057 in

Gear Diameter
61.020-61.070 mm
2.4023-2.4043 in

Housing Bore
33.025-33.050 mm
1.3001-1.1801 in

Housing Flatness Maximum
0.076 mm
0.0030 in

Journal Roundness Maximum
0.005 mm
0.0002 in

Journal Taper (Intentional Towards Counterweight)
0.012 mm
0.00047 in

Shaft Groove Width
3.23-3.40 mm
0.127-0.134 in

Shaft Journal OD
29.950-29.975 mm
1.1791-1.1801 in

Thrust Plate Thickness
2.945-3.045 mm
0.1159-0.1199 in

Camshaft

Camshaft Bearing ID No. 1
40.00-40.040 mm
1.5748-1.5764 in

Camshaft Bearing ID No. 2-5
35.00-35.040 mm
1.3780-1.3795 in

End Play Clearance
0.025-0.225 mm
0.0009-0.0088 in

Exhaust Lobe Lift
8.8 mm
0.346 in

Intake Lobe Lift
9.0 mm
0.354 in

Journal Clearance
0.050-0.110 mm
0.0019-0.0043 in

Journal Diameter No. 1
39.93-39.95 mm
1.5720-1.5728 in

Journal Diameter No. 2-5
34.93-34.95 mm
1.3751-1.3760 in

Lobe Taper
0.046-0.083 mm
0.0018-0.0033 in

Camshaft Housing

Bottom Maximum Within 100.0 mm (3.937 in)
0.025 mm
0.001 in

Cam Carrier Flatness
0.07 mm
0.0028 in

Lifter Bore ID
32.989-33.019 mm
1.298-1.299 in

Lifter OD
32.961-32.973 mm
1.297-1.298 in

Lifter to Bore Clearance
0.016-0.058 mm
0.0006-0.0023 in

Lip Seal Bore ID
49.975-50.025 mm
1.9675-1.9695 in

Lip Seal OD
49.975-50.025 mm
1.9675-1.9695 in

Crankshaft and Connecting Rod

Balancer Hub ID to Crank Snout OD
33.00-33.03 mm
1.2992-1.3004 in

Connecting Rod Bearing Clearance
0.010-0.068 mm
0.00039-0.0026 in

Connecting Rod Clearance to Piston Pin
0.007-0.032 mm
0.00028-0.0013 in

Connecting Rod ID at the Large End
51.167-51.193 mm
2.0144-2.0155 in

Connecting Rod ID at the Small End
22.007-22.027 mm
0.8664-0.8672 in

Connecting Rod Journal Width
23.370-23.750 mm
0.9200-0.9350 in

Connecting Rod Weight, in the Same Engine, All Within
2 g
0.0705 oz

Connecting Rod Width at the Large End
23.170-23.220 mm
0.9122-0.9142 in

Connecting Rod Width at the Small End
23.170-23.220 mm
0.9122-0.9142 in

Crankshaft Bearing Clearance
0.010-0.060 mm
0.00039-0.0023 in

Crankshaft End Play
0.087-0.243 mm
0.0034-0.0095 in

Flange Runout Maximum
0.03 mm
0.00120 in

Flywheel Fit
0.000-0.013 mm loose
0.0000-0.0005 in

ID Balancer
33.00-33.03 mm
1.2992-1.3004 in

ID of Seal Diameter on Crank
81.96-82.04 mm
3.2210-3.2299 in

Main Bearing Inside Diameter
60.019-60.060 mm
2.3629-2.3645 in

Main Bearing Journal Diameter
60.00-60.024 mm
2.3622-2.3631 in

Out of Round
0.005 mm
0.0002 in

Out of Round Maximum
0.005 mm
0.0002 in

Rod Assembly Center to Center Distance
144.95-145.05 mm
5.7067-5.7106 in

Rod Bearing Inside Diameter
48.001-48.043 mm
1.8898-1.8914 in

Rod Bearing Journal Diameter
47.975-48.00 mm
1.8887-1.8897 in

Rod Side Clearance
0.150-0.450 mm
0.0059-0.0177 in

Runout of Crankshaft at the Flywheel Flange Maximum
0.050 mm
0.002 in

Runout of Crankshaft Maximum
0.050 mm
0.002 in

Runout of Seal Surface
0.05 mm max
0.002 in

Straightness, Taper
0.007 mm
0.0003 in

Stroke of Crank
94 mm
3.70 in

Supported on Front and Rear Journals Clearance to the Crankshaft Position Sensor
0.77-1.77 mm
0.0303-0.0697 in

Timing Gear Fit to Crankshaft Snout
33.03-33.06 mm
1.3004-1.3016 in

Width, Main Thrust Bearing Journal No. 3, Including Fillets
27.837-27.913 mm
1.0959-1.0989 in

Cylinder Block

Cylinder Bore Diameter
89.992-9.004 mm
3.5430-3.5435 in

Out Of Round Maximum
0.010 mm
0.0004 in

Runout Rear Face of Block to the Crankshaft. Center Line Maximum
0.07 mm
0.002 in

Taper Maximum. Top to 106 mm (4.173 in) Down
0.008 mm
0.0003 in

Cylinder Head

Cylinder Head Maximum Flatness Variation Over 25.4 mm (1.0 in)
0.254 mm
0.001 in

Cylinder Head Maximum Flatness Variation Over 152.4 mm (6.0 in)
0.508 mm
0.002 in

Cylinder Head Maximum Overall Flatness Variation
0.076 mm
0.003 in

Do Not Resurface if the Overall Measurement is Less Than
0.076 mm
0.003 in

Exhaust
27.000 mm
1.062 in

Exhaust
0.037-0.083 mm
0.00150-0.00320 in

Exhaust Valve Guide ID
5.965-5.991 mm
0.2348-0.2358 in

Intake Valve Guide ID
5.965-5.991 mm
0.2348-0.2358 in

Replace the Head if the Overall Measurement is More Than
0.25 mm
0.010 in

Resurface the Head if the Overall Measurement is More Than
0.076-0.25 mm
0.003-0.010 in

Runout
0.05 mm
0.00196 in

Valve Seat Diameter Intake
34.566 mm
1.361 in

Valve Stem to the Valve Guide Clearance Intake
0.024-0.070 mm
0.000986-0.00275 in

Volume
59.8 cc-61.0 cc
1.5825 oz-1.6501 oz

Lubrication System

Oil Pressure @ 3000 RPM
207 kPa
30 psi min.

Oil Pressure @ 900 RPM
69 kPa
10 psi min.

Oil Pump

Diameter
45.050-45.100 mm
1.773-1.775 in

Gerotor Pocket Depth
15.30-15.35 mm
0.6023-0.6043 in

Inner Gerotor Tip Clearance Maximum
0.1 mm
0.0059 in

Oil Pump Drive to Driven Gear Backlash
0.075-0.140 mm
0.0029-0.0055 in

Outer Gerotor Diameter Clearance
0.050-0.150 mm
0.0019-0.0059 in

Outer Gerotor Thickness
15.225-15.250 mm
0.5994-0.6003 in

Piston

Clearance in the Bore (42 mm from top of piston)

Compression Height
29.95-30.05 mm
1.179-1.183 in

Factory Specification
(-) 0.014-0.022 mm
(-) 0.00055-0.00087 in

Service Specification
0.026-0.078 mm
0.0010-0.0031 in

Piston Diameter at 70°F (21°C) (48 mm from top of piston)

Factory Specification
89.982-90.006 mm
3.5426-3.5435 in

Service Specification
89.926-89.966 mm
3.5404-3.5420 in

Piston Pin Bore ID at 70°F (21°C)
22.002-22.006 mm
0.8662-0.8664 in

Ring Groove Width, Oil
3.04-3.06 mm
0.1197-0.1205 in

Ring Groove Width, Second Compression
1.52-1.54 mm
0.0598-0.0606 in

Ring Groove Width, Top Compression
1.23-1.25 mm
0.048-0.049 in

Weight Less Pin and Rings
350 +/- 5 g
12.346 +/- 0.176 oz

Piston Pin

Diameter
21.995-22.000 mm
0.8659-0.8661 in

End Play on Floating Pin
0.49-1.16 mm
0.019-0.046 in

Pin to Piston Clearance Loose @ 21°C (70°F)
0.002-0.011 mm
0.00008-0.00043 in

Pin to Rod Clearance
0.007-0.032 mm
0.00028-0.0013 in

Weight
111.0 g
3.915 oz

Piston Rings

Compression Ring Gap, Second Ring
0.25-0.40 mm
0.0098-0.0157 in

Compression Ring Gap, Top
0.15-0.30 mm
0.006-0.012 in

Compression Ring Side Clearance In Groove, Second Ring
0.030-0.070 mm
0.0012-0.0028 in

Compression Ring Side Clearance in the Groove, Top Ring
0.040-0.080 mm
0.0016-0.0031 in

Compression Ring Width, Second Ring
1.470-1.490 mm
0.0579-0.0587 in

Compression Ring Width, Top Ring
1.170-1.190 mm
0.0461-0.0469 in

Oil Rail Width
0.385-0.440 mm
0.0151-0.0173 in

Oil Ring Gap
0.25-0.76 mm
0.0098-0.0299 in

Oil Ring Width (Ring Package)
2.827-3.014 mm
0.1113-0.1187 in

Valve Lifter

Clearance in Bore
0.016-0.058 mm
0.0006-0.0023 in

Valve Springs

Load @ 26.98 mm (1.0622 in), Open
544-596 N
122-133 lb

Valve Spring Pressure Load @ 36.5 mm (1.4370), Closed
223-247 N
50-55 lb

Valves

Exhaust Valves, Valve Seat Angle 45.5 degrees

Head Diameter
28.870-29.130 mm
1.1366-1.1469 in

Overall Length
108.67 mm
4.2783 in

Stem Diameter
5.908-5.928 mm
0.2326-0.2334 in

Stem to Guide Clearance
0.037-0.83 mm
0.0014-0.0326 in

Valve Seat Runout
0.03 mm
0.0011 in

Valve Seat Angle in Head
45 degrees

Valve Seat Margin Minimum
0.25 mm
0.0098 in

Valve Seat Width
0.94-1.90 mm
0.0370-0.0748 in

Valve Tip to the Groove Centerline
3.92 mm
0.1543 in

Intake Valves, Valve Seat Angle 46 degrees

Head Diameter
35.50 +/- 0.13 mm
1.3976 +/- 0.0051 in

Overall Length
107.79 mm
4.2437 in

Stem Diameter
5.921-5.941 mm
0.2331-0.2339 in

Stem to Guide Clearance
0.024-0.070 mm
0.0009-0.0027 in

Valve Seat Angle in Head
45 degrees

Valve Seat Margin Minimum
0.25 mm
0.0098 in

Valve Seat Runout
0.03 mm
0.0015 in

Valve Seat Width
0.094-1.90 mm
0.0037-0.0748 in

Valve Tip to Groove Centerline
3.92 mm
0.1543 in

Valve Installed Height, All
25.36-26.12 mm
0.9984-1.0283 in

Valve Tip above Spring Retainer, All
1.102-1.320 mm
0.0433-0.0519 in











Re: Project engine simulation. Need all LD9 Specs to make engine profile. Note this is NOT Desktop
Sunday, September 16, 2007 3:48 PM
I dont think thats enough information!!!!!!!
















Just Kidding



Re: Project engine simulation. Need all LD9 Specs to make engine profile. Note this is NOT Desktop
Sunday, September 16, 2007 3:53 PM
Thanks, that clears up a couple of things like valve angles etc etc.
But I still need all of the specific items I have listed.
Re: Project engine simulation. Need all LD9 Specs to make engine profile. Note this is NOT Desktop
Sunday, September 16, 2007 4:57 PM
Cam specs:
Stock 2.4 LD9 Cam Specs
198 degrees @ .050" with .354" lift for the intake
187 degrees @ .050" with .346" lift for the exhaust











Re: Project engine simulation. Need all LD9 Specs to make engine profile. Note this is NOT Desktop
Monday, September 17, 2007 8:57 AM
Needed intake and exhaust manifold specs as well if possible.
Average runner diameter and length etc.

Also for the cams, I need to know how they are installed. That does not give me enough info, but it is a start. Thanks.

Lets keep this going so we can get a good modle, so instead of spending money on things we don't need we can figure out what is needed.
Re: Project engine simulation. Need all LD9 Specs to make engine profile. Note this is NOT Desktop
Tuesday, December 18, 2007 7:42 PM
Quote:

Endplay
0.185-0.455 mm
0.0073-0.0179 in

Connecting Rod Journal Width
23.370-23.750 mm
0.9200-0.9350 in

Connecting Rod Width at the Large End
23.170-23.220 mm
0.9122-0.9142 in


now coorect me if i'm wrong but if rod journal is 0.935 and rod width is 0.9142, it makes an endplay of 0.0208 which is bigger than 0.0179
i have this problem with my eagle rods and cant find a crank with journal of 0.9200 they all have around .935 and that gives me an endplay of around 0.023 which is alot moore than the .0179



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