I'm considering the following: comp stage1 grind cams, reveco TB, K&N intake, 2.5" cat back, HPT w/ 7000rpm redline to take advantage of cams. This is on my 2004 5speed eco with a wealth of suspension mods.
My questions:
-We have learned from PJ's N/A build that larger injectors are necessary when a significant airflow mod is done. Do the stage1 cams fall in that category? I'm sure something like 320cc's would cover it
-From reading articles on comp eco cams, it looks like stage1 is the most street friendly, increasing hp/tq across the already beefy eco powerband. Would stage2 be too "peaky" for a DD, and would you expect a tq loss below say, 4000 rpm? I know a lot of people have experienced problems w/ cams mainly due to incorrect installation or timing, which is why Im opting professional installation.
-With spot on tuning, what would you anticipate the effect on gas milage?
-I was hoping for 20-30hp gain from the above mods (stage1 grind) with dyno tuning, ~150whp. Feel free to shoot me down or built me up
oldskool wrote:I'm considering the following: comp stage1 grind cams, reveco TB, K&N intake, 2.5" cat back, HPT w/ 7000rpm redline to take advantage of cams. This is on my 2004 5speed eco with a wealth of suspension mods.
My questions:
-We have learned from PJ's N/A build that larger injectors are necessary when a significant airflow mod is done. Do the stage1 cams fall in that category? I'm sure something like 320cc's would cover it
even a stock motor needs bigger injectors (with little to no mods) but 320s should be fine
I wouldn't really want a tapered throttle body.. look to SMG autosports for a true straight thru increase of throttle body bore.. anything else is a waste of time and money.
you may want to consider grabbing a 4-1 header since the factory manifold is going to be pretty restrictive
Quote:
-From reading articles on comp eco cams, it looks like stage1 is the most street friendly, increasing hp/tq across the already beefy eco powerband. Would stage2 be too "peaky" for a DD, and would you expect a tq loss below say, 4000 rpm? I know a lot of people have experienced problems w/ cams mainly due to incorrect installation or timing, which is why Im opting professional installation.
putting cams in is really simple (especially with the ecotec cam tool, usually found on ebay). the only thing you have to watch out for is the followers jumping out of place(occasionaly incorrectly refered to as "rockers").. a mistake that caused me to hurt my L61 pre patriot head.
I wouldn't worry about losing torque below 4000rpm because if you shift at 7000, you're never going to get that low anyway.. torque drop is roughly 2000rpm
Quote:
-With spot on tuning, what would you anticipate the effect on gas milage?
shouldn't be much if any since under partial throttle, its still opting for 14.7:1 air fuel.. you may even see an increase in gas mileage
Quote:
-I was hoping for 20-30hp gain from the above mods (stage1 grind) with dyno tuning, ~150whp. Feel free to shoot me down or built me up
stock head, go stage 1. if you're upgrading the valve springs go for stage 2 bare minimum. if you want real power and have an upgraded valvetrain and a ported head, get comp stage 3s
the power band is going to be wide because of our gearing, when i was on the triflow cams the 'seat of the pants' feel was from 5000rpm to 7500rpm.. shifting is going to be int he neighborhood of 7200rpm with the 7500rpm limiter letting you sneak thru the beams while still in 3rd gear
stage 3s in theory would take you a bit higher
I inspected my crank upon tearing down the L61 that's seen 8000rpm a few times and everything was looking good. The only real thing that messed up my old engine was the cracked ring land due to detonation and the broken lash adjuster (incorrectly called lifters) which was probably broken from my 2-step limiter
the only issue I've had with my stage II cams is getting the car to idle correctly. a little HPT time should help correct that. the stage II's kick in around 2500 or so. I'm still unsure about going to a larger throttle body, as it feels like the cams might have taken away from the bottom end.
I haven't been able to see what my injector duty cycle is yet.
and like PJ said, the cams are really easy to put in if you have the tool.
Desert Tuners
“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
Arnjolt wrote:bigger injectors? Would the injectors from a SS/SC cobalt work okay on a build like that? I'm asking since it's similar to mine.
I have some ready to go in my car. I just don't have cash for a wideband just yet to make sure they're running correctly. soon though.
Desert Tuners
“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
lsj injectors should do the trick as well
and just to reiterate, I had the factory injectors on my car with a completely stock engine, the only thing I had was an exhaust, header, and an intake.. and I was still seeing 105% duty cycle for a 13:1 air fuel
they're just too small.
oddly enough, I've thrown codes for being too rich ever so often. so I'm not sure what's going on... unless they're heating up and failing.
Desert Tuners
“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
I was thinking LSJ injectors as well, or stage 2 injectors, but im not sure of the flow rate. Either should be a direct swap. Thanks for the feedback guys.
So is the Reveco TB good for anything (for example even its smallest bore of 61mm)? I ask because there is a combo deal on ebay for that TB and the K&N typhoon intake for under 400$.
The SMG GP is tempting, but a core is needed. I guess I could live a week or two w/o driving the eco
...
Hey Ryan
No one has asked me how big my injectors are, I have WAY more WHP and TQ than PJ. just because my car is consitered a "race car" by some people its still an ALL MOTOR ecotec powered cavalier. I do have plans on upgrading to larger injectors in 2008 because i NEED them now. Im not sure if the 100 oct unleaded gas does anything for A/F but with the "winter build" i may have to install a second fuel rail
I will give you a hint, its still a L61 block but . . . the displacement is allmost 2.5 L
-Ben
Ben Wenzel Jr wrote:Hey Ryan
No one has asked me how big my injectors are, I have WAY more WHP and TQ than PJ. just because my car is considered a "race car" by some people its still an ALL MOTOR ecotec powered cavalier. I do have plans blahblahblahblah
-Ben
yes we know ben, you also had higher compression and more machine work and less interior than me too, but my clutch is still attached to my flywheel
also, my injectors are listed in my registry, as are ALL my mods..
funny, I don't seem to see yours there..? you're running stock injectors?
Hey PJ
Blah Blah Blah Blah
-Ben
Overall Best times
60' - 1.857 (6/24/07)-(Drag Radials 205-50-15)
330' - 5.552 (6/24/07)-(Drag Radials 205-50-15)
1/8 - 8.690 (7/22/07)-(Conquesrt Radials 195-70-14)
M.P.H. - 81.87 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-79-14)
1000' - 11.274 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-70-14)
1/4 - 13.442 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-70-14)
M.P.H. - 104.08 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-70-14)
** ALL MOTOR **
* 181whp @ 7600rpm *
Website: www.benwenzeljr.com
2007 GM Tuner Bash Runner Up - Broken Pressure Plate
#1 Qualifer 13.857 @ 101.49
