Just wondering some peoples opinions on the intake side of the ecotec head.
This may be a good question as well to those of you with the Patriot head too.
I was looking at the eco head today im finishing up the port job I am doing on the exhaust side, there is alot of work to do on the exhaust side, there are tones of big rough ridges from the casting, and the exhaust ports them selves are very small in relation to the intake side. (I know they should be smaller but I think the ratio is overly small) I plan on polishing the exhaust side and the combustion chambers to a mirror finnish. When I took a look at the intake side, it doesnt seem like there is much of a need to open the ports up anymore than they are? Other than maybe removing the casting ridges what should be done?
Anyone with the Patriot head, did they even remove anything?
Just looking for some opinions and ideas.
I am going to be running a custom intake manifold, 70mm or so TB , comp stage 3 NA grind cams, and oversized valves as well as 11 or 11.5 :1 compression.
Opinions?
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They hogged out the intake side quite a bit actually.... And (an error if you ask me) did very little to the exhaust side. For an NA setup, I'd enlarge the intakes but keep it within reason, having an intake port thats any more than a tiny bit larger than the hole in the intake manifold is pretty much a waste of effort. So you'd want to use the flange of whatever intake mani you're using as a template. As for the exhaust side, the port exit should end up a tiny bit smaller than the hole in the exhaust flange. If the port exit's bigger than the hole in the exhaust flange the gasses will bounce off the edge of the flange and create a crapload of turbulence.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
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They hogged out the intake side quite a bit actually.... And (an error if you ask me) did very little to the exhaust side.
I agree with this.
Have you seen the Patriot head? Did they remove alot?
Im contimplating not touching the intake side at all......
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Where's skwirly when ya need him?
I'm not that familiar with the Comp Eco cams, what are the specs on their stage 3s?
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I'm not that familiar with the Comp Eco cams, what are the specs on their stage 3s?
They are pretty big, well at least the biggest I could find:
Street & Strip high RPM Applications power from 3500-8000rpm .456 intake and .453 exhaust lift, 264 intake and 268 exhaust duration (222 intake and 224 exhaust @ .050" duration) Requires computer modification very strong power over 5000 RPM
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I opened the inlet ports internally to match the size of the ports on the side of the head, so about 1/16"
the main work is the throat area, where I removed upto 1/8" in places.
I also ported the 2.4vvt inlet manifold outlet ports to match, works well with my 68mm 2.0sc tb and injectors.
I have +1mm swirled valves and cams too, so try and find a tb around 65-70mm not any bigger
kflo wrote:Where's skwirly when ya need him?
I'm not that familiar with the Comp Eco cams, what are the specs on their stage 3s?
That would be who's Patriot head I'm referring to. The intakes are hogged out ridiculously large. If you search under DaFlyinSkwirl as an author, somewhere in his post-whoring you'll find the original thread he made comparing the Patriot to the stock head.
You have to be careful with the exhaust because there's not a LOT of meat on the sides of one of the ports because of egr. But really, you want to focus your work in the bowl area around the valve, and then just open up the port a little bit. You've got the right idea with polishing the exhaust side, just remember when porting to think about how the air will flow through the port, and where inertia will put the majority of the flow. Generally the air's going to follow the outside of the curves, so you'll gain more from working those areas than the inside radii.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
We are currently in the process of building up 3 eco's this winter for 500+whp for two of them and 850whp for brad's cobalt. We are working with Ray Bates from Bates engineering. For anyone who doesn't know who that is he disigned and builds all the parts that you will find in the GM Performance parts section as well as every engine part currently running in the NHRA powered eco cars. Anyway when I was talking to him about head design and porting he was telling me that the two most important things to remember are on the intake side of things. The cast peice that separates the two valves has a water passage running through it and he recommends not to take any material off this section because when the head heats up they have seen them crack in that spot when material was removed. Also the floor of the intake port is the thinest part of the head and again he recommends not to take any material from that section as well for the same reasons.
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I opened the inlet ports internally to match the size of the ports on the side of the head, so about 1/16"
the main work is the throat area, where I removed upto 1/8" in places.
I also ported the 2.4vvt inlet manifold outlet ports to match, works well with my 68mm 2.0sc tb and injectors.
I have +1mm swirled valves and cams too, so try and find a tb around 65-70mm not any bigger
Thanks for the advice, you have a very interesting set up there. Im going to have to look into some of your parts combinations.
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That would be who's Patriot head I'm referring to. The intakes are hogged out ridiculously large. If you search under DaFlyinSkwirl as an author, somewhere in his post-whoring you'll find the original thread he made comparing the Patriot to the stock head.
Thats interesting... Im sure this is good for forced induction where you dont have to wory about intake charge velocity but im not sure its a good idea to touch the ports (given the size) NA.
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The cast peice that separates the two valves has a water passage running through it and he recommends not to take any material off this section because when the head heats up they have seen them crack in that spot when material was removed. Also the floor of the intake port is the thinest part of the head and again he recommends not to take any material from that section as well for the same reasons.
I need to see this.... I have a spare "garbage head" I think im going to run it through a band saw and verify this. I had no idea there was a water passage in the piece that seperated the ports. That would have been a disaster. Well, Im thinking for this head I may just blend some of the sharp edges from the casting marks but other than that Im not going to touch the intake side. Its already port matched to the alluminum flange for my custom intake mani. When I get the head back from the machine shop with some valves in it Ill post up some pics.
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did you ever get to run that garbage head through the band saw to find the water jackets?
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did you ever get to run that garbage head through the band saw to find the water jackets?
No, I never did. I still have it at home.
I have some pics on my home computer that LEVELZEROMOTORSPORTS posted a long time ago showing the water jackets. Im not at home for another few days but if you want when I get home I can e-mail you the pics I have.
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yeah man that would be cool..getting closer to having the time to do this.
all i did was rough my intake ports from the opening to where the fuel injector hole is, i think it'll be good enough for 10 lbs. of boost on 9.5:1 compression! but i'm still waiting on a header to finish the opening on the exhaust and my Ferrea 1mm valves to finish the throats!
Project Resurrection is in full swing!
Some pics of a cut up eco head for reference:
Thats all I have unfortunately, this was from an original post by LEVELZEROMOTORSPORTS
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thanks man, theres a whole lot more room in there than I thought there was, looks like a GOOD 1/4"
Wow, that's friggin impressive, I don't think I've ever seen an aluminum DOHC head with that much meat between the ports and water jacket! I got my OS exhaust valves, now I just need the header to finish the exhaust side of the head!
Project Resurrection is in full swing!
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thanks man, theres a whole lot more room in there than I thought there was, looks like a GOOD 1/4"
I dont think you have any concerns, I took off over an 1/8th and I was nowhere near hitting water.
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Wow, that's friggin impressive, I don't think I've ever seen an aluminum DOHC head with that much meat between the ports and water jacket! I got my OS exhaust valves, now I just need the header to finish the exhaust side of the head!
Good luck with the build.
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