First off, many know that I'm a quad4 guy, but I by no means am biased towards them. This thread isn't meant in any way to offend those with NA ECO's, but perhaps just to get better insight. But my question is simple:
It has been a few years now that a form of variable valve timing has been available for ECO owners. I'm just curious why the highest NA horsepower ECO is only around 180 whp on race gas and is a trailer bitch? (again, no offense Ben). With the technology now readily at our disposal, why haven't we seen a flurry of streetable NA 200+whp ECO powered J-cars? And don't go into the electric PS or the fly by wire or any of that, because there are plenty here that are fully capable of working around those issues as well as use a standalone to manage everything. I believe Hahn has been working on this, but why haven't others? Is it price?
Again, I'm sorry if I may have offended any of you, but I by no means intended to do so. I have equal love for all car enthusiasts...and I'm just trying to tap into the minds of the ECO community.
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
OK, so I overshot it by a year
. What exactly makes the 2nd gen blocks so much different that you can't swap over the top end?
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
Biggest thing is you would have to rewire the entire car to 2006+, the old eco ECU won't control the VVT engine, and the other electronics in the car won't work with the 2006+ ECU.
Other than that, the bore is bigger on the 2.4, so you'd have to work around that. The crank sensor signal though is another big issue, so you'd have to use the 2.4 crank on the 2.2 block, at that point you might as well put in the whole 2.4 motor.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, September 24, 2007 3:28 PM
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when you say "other electronics" do you mean radio, A/C, etc. or just the guages.
Listen F***ers. FASTERTHANAHONDA is a joke because I WORK FOR HONDA. I'll talk @!#$ about Fords to, that doesn't mean I can beat a 12 second mustang.
Quote:
when you say "other electronics" do you mean radio, A/C, etc. or just the guages.
everything that is connected to the BCM
I was thinking PJ was pushing more than 200+ WHP, am I wrong ?
...and there turbo Ecotec guys are pushing sic amounts of power
Ok.
First off VVT aside there are a bunch of reasons that we haven't seen 200hp N/A ecos.
The first thing that I would like to say is that this site, although a great resource, does not include all eco owners from everywhere. There are probably a few 200whp all motor ecos out there that belong to people that simply do not frequent this site. I know of at least one 2.4 eco that is racing actively in the all-motor class(and definitely has more than 200whp) and does not post here.
Another reason, from a personal note, is simply cost. An all motor eco that would produce between 200 and 250whp is going to cost 10-12000$ to build. I know because im building one. I will probably spend 15000$ on the car to squeeze out 250whp. Unless you are really and truly interested in N/A performance its really a hell of alot more economical to just buy a 3000$ turbo kit. So thats what everyone generally does.
Another thing I noticed is that people on this board are genuinely scared of stand alone engine management systems. N/A power requires revs, and until recently, no one wanted to spend the money to rev to 9000rpms. HPT isn't going to do it. You need a real stand alone. So again, why spend the money and the headaches of re-wiring your whole car when you can slap on a turbo and rev to 6450 and still put down 300whp.
Did anyone ever notice that it took forever to have a bunch of 400hp cavs and fires running around? Thats because no one wanted to run a stand alone. People were trying to use FMU's for those numbers. So until HPT came out we didn't have much action.
I know 2 Twin Cams that are over 250whp N/A, but one of them uses a TEC3 standalone, and the other is on a Modified W41 e-prom or something.
As well to get real power N/A you need high compression, so that means a re-build. By the time people want to re-build, they are going for big power through a turbo, not 11-14:1 comp for all-motor. You cant do both unless you want to run race fuel 24/7.
ok thats all I got, probably most of it is incoherent cause its late..................
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