For anyone who has it, what do you think? Im looking for more n/a people, or maybe sc'd people. To anyone who says that it will hurt performance, back up your thoughts. Top n/a guys are running it, but what do you think about 3" without deeper mods?(stock head/cams/bottom end and such)

Some of you might say don waste your time, but Im a person to likes to try out different things when I cant get a straight answer. Id realy like to see a dyno vs stock or smaller exhaust(2.25 or whatever)

I personally think 3 inch is too big for N/A. I run 2.5 inch and think that is best for N/A.



FU Tuning

I will not say it will hurt performance but it is a little more than a stock motor needs. I did not lose any TQ with running a 3" exhaust NA. I made 157hp/171tq with a 30lb injectors, 57mmTB, DC header and 3" catback. It was on the car NA, because I didn't have all the parts I needed for boost at the time.




Jason
99 Z24 Supercharged
157hp/171tq - NA
LD9 for Life

am running 2.5" exhaust and i think that it is more than enough for my engine. All i got is an intake the rest is stock.

i think its not needed without head work and cams.

2.25" and 2.5" are plenty for a basic n/a setup.

3 inch will be fine, but on a stock exhaust manifold its really not important. And you would lose quite a bit of bottom end performance.

Start from the head back, those will be your best gains.

i have a 2003 cavalier vwith a AEM CAI, a buddy club 2 grounding unit/ voltage stabilizer, and turbo tech upper and lower motor mounts. about a week ago, i had RD Fabs put on a 3" stainless exhaust using my pacesetter header and pacesetter hiflow metal core cat, and an HKS cf Ti Hi-power muffler. when i first started it up, i was amazed at how deep and agressive the tone was, think more highly modified supra than honda on crack. when i left their shop, i got on it all the way up to the speed limiter. i felt alot more upper end torque than before and the lower end torque was improved as well, also my throttle response was greatly improved, before the exhaust upgrade, my car wouldnt even chirp the tires goin into third, now i spin them every time, i think the 3" exhaust is a great upgrade for any ecotec and i wouldnt recomend anyone but RDFabs to put it on.


many changes in the making
my favorite part about doing bodywork,.......... bondo bugers

3" won't hurt

But I would say match whatever the collector size of the header is.

if the collector is 2.5", go with a 2.5" exhaust.

if its 3", go with a 3" exhaust

2.25"... I wouldn't really bother. 2.5" minimum

cavy tuner911 wrote:i have a 2003 cavalier vwith a AEM CAI, a buddy club 2 grounding unit/ voltage stabilizer, and turbo tech upper and lower motor mounts. about a week ago, i had RD Fabs put on a 3" stainless exhaust using my pacesetter header and pacesetter hiflow metal core cat, and an HKS cf Ti Hi-power muffler. when i first started it up, i was amazed at how deep and agressive the tone was, think more highly modified supra than honda on crack. when i left their shop, i got on it all the way up to the speed limiter. i felt alot more upper end torque than before and the lower end torque was improved as well, also my throttle response was greatly improved, before the exhaust upgrade, my car wouldnt even chirp the tires goin into third, now i spin them every time, i think the 3" exhaust is a great upgrade for any ecotec and i wouldnt recomend anyone but RDFabs to put it on.

It's not high end torque you feel it's high end horsepower.

When I had a lot of my NA mods on I did a comparison test with 2.25 and 2.5 inch exhaust. the 2.25 had great gaines all over but the 2.5 exceeded the 2.25 gains on high end, where as the 2.5 had lost some low end grunt and mid range power. It's all in how are designing your engine to work. do you want to to be strong at only +4-5k rpms? Or do you like having that broader power range?

If you said all top end go for 2.5

if you want a broader power range go for 2.25.

Personally I think 3 inch exhaust on any 4cyl NA car is retarded. But to each their own.



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Thanks for all the opinions. As you can see different people have different views, thats why Im not 100% sure. I think dyno numbers would greatly help but I doubt that would happen.

As of now I have a stans 4-2-1 header that has a 2.5" downpipe, then no cat to 2.25" piping; and yes Im using a very large glasspack so it wont sound like a**. I did want to switch to 2.5", but as I said I like ot try new things and I kinda want to try 3". Im also an auto, but Id rather have more power up top cause thats where it feels like it falls on its face. I do plan to sc which Ive been saying for a while now, but I wasnt working for a while so no money for it. I also plan to do a decent build sometime down the road, the only thing stopping me now is living in an aprtment so no room.

I also thought that 3" was too big, I had 2.5" on my 3400 which I thought was plenty for that motor so didnt think it would good for a 4cyl. But after reading posts about n/a people going 3" and feeling good power increases that got me kinda interested.

cavy tuner911, I saw your thread, Id realy like to see pics/video. I bet that was a pretty penny for everything also lol.

I just want to say that I put down 214whp on a completly stock exhaust. Yes even a good condition stock muffler. I did not really intend to do it this way. It just kind of happened. Exhaust would be one of the last things I would do that way you have plenty of time to decide what parts you want to go with. This way you can have the sound from it you really want and not redo it 2 or3 times.

Lets not get the cart the cart before the horse. How about you figure out how you are going to get the air INTO your engine before you worry about how you are going to get it out. If you do a crappy sounding loud exhaust with nothing more to back it up than a cold air intake all you are really doing is annoying people who are going to make fun of you more than they already do for you driving a j-body. Did it ever occur to any of you that maybe having an exhaust that every cop within a mile of you can here is not a good thing?



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

i can tell you this right now.

3in it way to big on a N/a motor. 4 cyl on top of it

i have a 78 camaro stock 350, had 2in exhaust on it stock. i put 2.5 in on it. and yes it sounds nice, but i didnt notice a slight loss in torque in the low end, but the high end is greatly increased

it has been said allready. It depends on how your building the motor to run.

If you want it to do strip, go with the 2.5 MAX!!!!

if you want to race people on the highway, 3in is the best... OVER THAT.. your a moron..(not directed toward anyone but those who have it on a N/A)

The if you truley understand how a motor works, alot of torque loss is becuase there is not BACK PREASSURE on the exhaust. Im not the first to say this, but if you do a little research on the topic of back pressure, and torque for that mater, you will see what I mean.

And by all means it don't just aplly to 8 cyl or anything. A motor is a motor. In the end they all do the same, make a car move. It's just how it does it.


It has been proven as well on tests that a well tuned exhaust can help hp and torque, over no exuast at all.



(i don't like typing)

But yet the top n/a guys are running 3" exhausts? And everyone Ive seen that has went 3" n/a and boosted has been very pleased with the results.

Id like to see proof that 3" hurts performance or whatever. Anyone that has it not happy with it?

I like my 2.25 for the low end I have, but I'll change over to a 2.5 or 3.0 after I get my supercharger on there.



PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

I had 2.25 when I was N/A And I liked how it ran, but I didn't want to sacrifice alot of low and midrange power for a little bit more top end using 2.5".

When I installed the 3" with the turbo on there. I couldn't tell exactly what happened, but my quarter mile time sure did improve :-)

"I...Like..it....alot" Dumb and Dumber



2004 Cavalier
13.2@105........
Mods...
BFG Drag Radials
Saab Turbo kit
2.5 exhaust, w/cutout
Spec Stage 2+ Clutch

I hate my 2 1/4, the engine pulls fine up to about 5,000rpm's then it feels like it hits a brick wall and looses all of it's go.

Thats exactly how I feel, and some say 2.5" doesnt do too much more than 2.25 so I dont want to spend another few hundred bucks not to be impressed if 3" would help more. Can someone proveto me that 3" will hurt performance, or have any experience with it that their not happy about?

well i really dont care what anyone else says, i noticed a decent jump in power and response over the stock without a muffler and if i had the cash to have it dyno'd to prove that the 3" on my motor makes more power, i would, i cant speak for every one or every car, but, on MY CAR with the late 2003 ECOTEC, it increased performance. Infact, several people have told me they noticed an increase in power and response as well, NOT A LOSE. now 3" may be too big for some of the older motors or when using different configurations, but for what ever reason mine helped. besides, im planning on adding a turbonetics GT-K 450 turbo and didnt want to pay to have my exhaust done twice. As far as being so loud that every cop in a 2 mile radius can hear me, so what? first off, i like how it sounds and have gotten nothing but compliments on it, secondly thats why they invented the SILENCER. and i will put up pics and vids and all that happy what not when i get back to NY on thursday.


many changes in the making
my favorite part about doing bodywork,.......... bondo bugers

I have 2.5 inch on my car again, I had 3 inch and really didnt see any gains except for noise,infact I think I lost alittle, so I went back to the 2.5 and am very happy with it, now for a turboed car I would suggest the 3inch because its better to have alittle bigger with a turbo. NA I think its best to have 2 or 2.25, but everyone has they're own way of doing things I guess.

QBE wrote:Personally I think 3 inch exhaust on any 4cyl NA car is retarded. But to each their own.

brian gawlik wrote:
i can tell you this right now.

3in it way to big on a N/a motor. 4 cyl on top of it

Jbody.org N/A ecotec top 10 list wrote:

A) 2.2L Ecotec N/A
1. Ben Wenzel Jr., 13.442 @ 104.08
2. DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ), 14.004 @ 96.76
3. Owen Stampflee, 14.446 @ 93.74

DaFlyinSkwirl Modifications wrote:
Engine:

Ecotec L61 swap
RKsport intake
* SMS 69mm throttle body
* tsudo 4-2-1 header
* 3" piping from header back
* 3" thrush glasspack
* magnaflow muffler
* ARP head studs
* Patriot stage 2 head
* LZM triflow cams
* 440cc injectors
* Fidanza 7 lbs flywheel
* SPEC stage 3 clutch
* Denso Iridium plugs(stock heat range)
* RKsport upper motor mount
* RKsport lower motor mount
* prothane tranny mounts
* removed air conditioning
* HP Tuners
* MSD 6212 ignition
* MSD blaster coils

yup 3" is retarded and too big

Quote:

icemike89
Today 4:33 PM

But yet the top n/a guys are running 3" exhausts? And everyone Ive seen that has went 3" n/a and boosted has been very pleased with the results.

Id like to see proof that 3" hurts performance or whatever. Anyone that has it not happy with it?

my only beef with 3" is jumping over the rear faux axle... god what a bitch.

but I digress, I think the ideal setup for any car is to match the collector diameter or the turbo outlet size. that is the best. no flare, no bottleneck.. just straight

I have a 3" exhaust on a N/A motor, but thats not by choice, I was turbo'd so at the time it was needed, but now that i am N/A again I never bother to change it, I added a pacesetter header to compliment it but also added a cold air intake, and also secret cams. I am pleased with the performance of it now. I think with cams and intake the 3" works good. I sorta feel a slight loss in low end but from 4500 up with cams the car screams. oh yeah this is on a 2.4

From what I remember, if you are running a turbo, 3" full exhaust systems is your best bet since it basically runs on exhaust gasses. If you are going with a s/c 2 1/2 is your best bet, it will allow more air flow to get out of the engine but not as much as a 3". N/A 2 1/4 is probably your best bet. This is all taken from memory, so don't quote me on anything.

dan

cavy tuner911 wrote:well i really dont care what anyone else says, i noticed a decent jump in power and response over the stock without a muffler and if i had the cash to have it dyno'd to prove that the 3" on my motor makes more power, i would, i cant speak for every one or every car, but, on MY CAR with the late 2003 ECOTEC, it increased performance. Infact, several people have told me they noticed an increase in power and response as well, NOT A LOSE. now 3" may be too big for some of the older motors or when using different configurations, but for what ever reason mine helped. besides, im planning on adding a turbonetics GT-K 450 turbo and didnt want to pay to have my exhaust done twice. As far as being so loud that every cop in a 2 mile radius can hear me, so what? first off, i like how it sounds and have gotten nothing but compliments on it, secondly thats why they invented the SILENCER. and i will put up pics and vids and all that happy what not when i get back to NY on thursday.

louder doesnt mean faster and you have a jbody ecotec just like everyone else here does....

and of course over stock your going to feel an increase... but to be honest with no mods and to get on a dyno your lucky if your full exhaust system nets you 6 whp...

sorry for the triple post but another mis conception I think a few ppl in this post are having.... they arent saying that you are losing hp from stock with a massive exhaust they are just saying for the best combination of gain its better to go with a more resonable size exhaust. Its like saying hey I have boost so instead of giving the amount of fuel needed lets just dump alot of fuel because since boost needs more fuel the more fuel we give the better....wrong Its all about Balance.