Is anybody here using the MSD Cam Sync Gen on there 2.4's or Eco engines.
This is probably the 3rd post about this part this month. Try searching for any info you need.
But I have it on my Ecotec.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
I just ordered mine 5 minutes ago so give me a week or so and I will have it hooked up. I guess I wont know if its working properly or not until I fix my CEL. Darned emissions harness. But I will keep everyone posted.
Team Vision Racing (aka hypsy) wrote:This is probably the 3rd post about this part this month. Try searching for any info you need.
But I have it on my Ecotec.
lol i think he's done all three, or atleast 2 of them
Thanks guys for the info. I do not want to get burned again with a product that says it will work but does not.
I just ordered my cam sync gen. I hope within a couple of weeks it will be running.
Same here mine just arrived yesterday
rodimus prime used it, as well as QBE who did a full msd conversion
My car may run 18s, but I can do your taxes in 10 seconds flat.
JBO lube - they would never have enough in stock and we'd never see RodimusPrime again
So, there isn't a whole lot of information on this, 3 total search returns. Most are simply people saying others have used it and others are going to try and use it. Nothing about it working daily or any special things need to make it work.
Is it as simple as hooking it up and it works right away? Is there any tricky wiring or hook up procedures? For the few people who said they were getting it on this thread, did it work for your purposes? And why did you get this?
Thanks for any information.
Shawn M.
PSN ID: Phatchance249
I got it, it's been working just fine for about the last 8 months now. Yes it is as simple as hooking it up. You will have to cut the signal wire coming from the stock ICM and that's where the CAM SYNC goes. I can get some pics of this if you'd like, just PM me and I'll get the best pics I can, my engine bay isn't the prettiest in the world.
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4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!
I've had my MSD wired up with the cam sync for like 2 years now.. works fine... only trick to getting it to work for me was getting a good waste spark signal from the 4th plug.. I had to strip off a good portion of the wire and wrap it around the boot, like 5 times in a upwards spiral w/o overlapping it then I wrapped it with electrical so it won't touch the edges and it works perfectly.. I did have to disconnect the outbound wire (brown wire white stripe) where the MSD clips in.. in order to prevent the signals from both going to the computer... like I said.. 2 years, no problems!
Memeber since '99
cardomain New England Tunerz
Zs Z wrote:I just ordered mine 5 minutes ago so give me a week or so and I will have it hooked up. I guess I wont know if its working properly or not until I fix my CEL. Darned emissions harness. But I will keep everyone posted.
We ALWAYS 99% of the time can price match and beat other places for MSD items. If you would like, let us know the part number, and where you ordered it from we will try to beat it and get it to you for less.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, March 21, 2008 3:46 PM
-Aaron
www.TurboTechRacing.com
Performance Parts For Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalts and More!!!
What's the pn for the cam sync, I have a 2000 Z24 with the TG coil conversion and a MSD DIS-2 box.
I think somebody needs to find out what the fuel timing really does when you replace a fixed angle trigger with a dynamic one like the MSD cam sync generator. I dont think it effects much but I'd be willing to bet the fueling isn't optimal when people do this mod.
Joshua Dearman wrote:I think somebody needs to find out what the fuel timing really does when you replace a fixed angle trigger with a dynamic one like the MSD cam sync generator. I don't think it effects much but I'd be willing to bet the fueling isn't optimal when people do this mod.
The eco doesn't use one, it has one on the crank to calculate engine speed, but the cam position is estimated by waste spark and functions the same way that the MSD generator does using resistance measurements to determine when the engine is TDC.
-Chris
I dont know much about other ignition systems but I can tell you this, the entire purpose of the 8914 part is to send a signal back to the PCM to keep it happy. The signal wire as stated needs to be wrapped a few times around the 4th plug boot to get a good connection. The eco does not use a camshaft position sensor as the 2.4 and later engines use. It detects when the 4th cylinder is firing and thats what it works with. Without this part you will get a P0340 code, not sure of the effects driving around with this code but id rather not.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Agreed with Rod... no part or bad signal always = PO340 code... I noticed a rougher idle as well.. but anyway.. with the part in and getting a good signal from the 4th plug AND with the wire (brown white strip?) cut no codes for over 2 years!! no issues all around.
Memeber since '99
cardomain New England Tunerz
The ecotec's cam sensor uses compression sense, yes
It works by knowing when the 1/4 cyl coils are firing and the cylinder with the fuel in it takes longer for the spark to jump the gap......so it can tell that cly. 4 is on its power stroke and so on.
The thing people aren't thinking about it that the ecotec ECU's code is setup so that it "calculates" when the cylinder WAS a TDC based on crank angle sensor and time.
Take a step back, I know how the megasquirt works, it knows where (on the crank angle sensor relative to the missing tooth) the pistons will be in relation to the engine cycle. ie: 6 teeth after missing tooth cyl 1 will be @ TDC ready for ignition...ect. Now to get SFI to work the ECU needs to know where the cams are at. It does this by running a SYNC routine. This routine knows by user input where the cam trigger will activate ie: TDC cyl. 1 PS or whatever. Now once the MS finds the missing tooth on the crank it will start to count the number of crank angle teeth until it sees the cam trigger, resetting the counter everytime it sees the missing teeth in the crank trigger again(since the crank is 4revs/1 cam rev). It will then store the number of teeth between the two points of interestes and calculate based on what it knows about when the 1st cyl should be @ TDC PS. Whit this knowledge the MS will predict when the cam trigger will activate and if it can accurately predict for 4 cycles it will stop reading the input from the cam sensor because "it makes the assumption the cams are DIRECTLY related to the crank speed". Only when or if the crank angle sensor falls out of sync will the MS re-acquire the cam sync.
Now, this is a pretty standard way of doing it, yes you can get processors fast enough to continually pole the cam trigger but I dont think anybody knows if our ECUs do or not. (just a side note to think about)
Now were saying the ecotec compressive resistance reads the resistance of the spark plug gap, well not quite, all it knows is the resistance of the air fuel mixture is higher than without/exhaust. Therefore we know that the cylinder on its exhaust strokes spark will break over faster then the cylinder on its power stroke. It measures this with a wire along side the coil trigger wire measuring the induced voltage by magnetic flux which occurs when the massive magnetic field drops, ie: sparks. OK, so the ECU can find a "round-a-bout" way of telling which cylinder is firing on its PS because it will fire second of the two, but it has no clue of exactly when it was at TDC, but it can calculate that from the trigger wheel right!!!...sure why not. OK, so for the ecotec with the ECU knowing whats going on(having the code written for it) theres no problem with this. However it does prove that the ecotec is firing in the present on calculated time from the past, which might not give any extra pedal delay but we can all see how theoretically it could be possible....but who cares, were talking .0125 of a second even at idle which would be the most delay possible. (yeah, who cares)
Now lets talk about the LD9. Its code is NOT meant to back calculate when a cylinder WAS at TDC....its code is written like the MS, with the assumption the cams are hard linked to the crank. Think about this, we just said the ecotec (and the MSD cam sync generator since its exactly the same in process) measure ONLY when the spark happens right......isn't the spark relative based on advance and retard? ....Abosolutely, can a ECU that knows to back calc the cylinders TDC by grabbing the last spark offset and add/subtract that to its calcs? Sure....can a ECU that has no clue about back calculating @!#$? Of course not.
So, this means the MSD cam sync generator IS going to be effected by the spark offset and WILL give bull@!#$ back to the LD9's ECU. Now, the question im gonna answer is why does the CE light off and the trouble code go away then. I can't answer that, I'd have to see the code. But I can give you a scenario based on the good old MS. When the cam sync on the MS isn't consistently sync'n with the crank it will simply continue to pole the sensor and wont stop. OK, back to the LD9 ECU, lets say the trouble code(TC) identifys when it gets no signal but if its getting anything will wont activate the TC and simply just continue trying to read and sync the sensor.(Plausible, but with no proof)
Now, we know that the ECU can't run SFI unless it gets a "good sync". OK theres two possibilities and really neither are good.
1. The ecu syncs but not knowing the trigger is advanced or retarded due to spark offset and as the result the fueling is late or early.
2. The ecu never syncs, continues to try so no TC, but running the injectors in batch and NOT SFI.
This is why I said:
Joshua Dearman wrote:I think somebody needs to find out what the fuel timing really does when you replace a fixed angle trigger with a dynamic one like the MSD cam sync generator. I dont think it effects much but I'd be willing to bet the fueling isn't optimal when people do this mod.
So who wants to bust out there two channel oscilloscope with a timing light to find out what everybody is actually doing with the MSD?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Friday, April 11, 2008 12:22 PM
^^^WOW, I tell you im going to answer a question then in the next sentence say i can't answer it....lol, thats what i get for writing this @ 2am, I posted it later without re-reading it very well except for a quick spell check(EDITS). Horrible.
Question: Is it possible to disconnect the SIGNAL wire from the cam position sensor while the engine is running and not throw a code? If so this will prove that the engine syncs with the sensor then ignores it(or until it losses crank angle). - just aas an insight to how the ECUs code is setup.
Second question: If the above does throw a code, try disconnecting and reconnecting the signal wire randomly like a broken wire would (put an inline on/off switch) and see if it throws a code, this could prove or disprove the theory that the ecu wont throw a code if its getting something/anything and trying to make sense of it.
I can say this.. with the cam sync generator not in.. or when I first put it in and was not getting a proper read off the 4th.. I threw the PO340 code and would continue to throw the code no matter how it was cleared. This is the same with the cam sync was not wired in either. Now this was happening in only bypassing the Ignition control module with the MSD.. when the MSD itself was bypassed (back to stock) and the code was erased.. the system did not throw a code. With the msd in, the cam sync in and getting proper signal from the 4th plug... no codes.
Now..I was told that the eco does not have a camshaft position sensor... and the PO340 code is Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Malfunction. All the manuals I've read, all the research online and the read-though of the ecotec build guide I have which covers the L61 and LSJ... none of which mention a Camshaft Position Sensor.
Memeber since '99
cardomain New England Tunerz
Yes, the ecotecs do have a camshaft position sensor. They dont have the same type the LD9 does stock, its basically the same type as the MSD....^its what i explained above "Compression sense".
SFI and COP alike require a cam positioning sensor, no if and or buts about it. If its SFI or COP its got one.
I know the stock ECU will throw a code when its NOT getting a signal, but it would be good to know how the ECU reads the sensor. Just until it syncs(like the MS) or constantly. Depending on the answer.....the MSD may be giving the ECU the wrong timing for fueling or doing nothing at all except keeping the ECU from throwing the code...ie: still running in batch mode.
Heres a good read about the ecotecs cam sensor:
Link
i have a 2.2 ecotec z24, but fully built engine etc, lsj top end tho..all this msd stuff.. wire,coils,interfaces msd box...cam sync.. do i need a cam sync generator ? i cant find one .
