Well, I know this is a popular subject I have used the search button and read up on it as much as I can. Besides the porting out the water coolant passage on the Head to match the block what other problems do you run into when doing this head swap? It can't be that simple or everybody with a 2.4 would have the 086 head on it with a set of HO cams and all the other HO swapped over parts and be running around with 200whp. Is there tunning issues or what? Just sounds to good to be true. The only things I can think of after reading all the other posts is you will need HPT to tune everything once all is done, a set of HO cams, pistons with a deeper dish for the cams, and then the ho intake manifold and 2.3 oil pump is a good ideas as well.




In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.

No it is pretty simple.

But first and foremost...DO NOT USE H.O. CAMS IF YOU HAVE NOT YET DONE THE 2.3L OR DRY SUMP OIL PUMP SWAP...ok then.


Step 1: Drill and expand necessary water passagest to match the 2.4L head gasket. Use a Felpro or a modified 2.3L head gasket to avoid the combustion chamber from overlapping the fire ring.

Step 2.0: (Secret cam or 2.4L cam owners ignore this step). For H.O. cams, the grind on the intake cam for the cam position sensor must be matched to the 2.4L cam. The power steering hex must be cut as well to use the 2.4L power steering.

Step 2.1: For H.O. cams, I believe it is required to have a dish or valve reliefs for the cams to clear.

Step 3: 2.4L cam and secret cam owners only need a FPR to run the motor. H.O. cam owners might need HPT to tune the motor (esp for the rev limit). Larger injectors are also needed.


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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.

Thanks for the info that is pretty much what I thought except for the more detail given with the HO cams. Wonder why more people don't do the head swap??




In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.

i love it when people on here give out info that is half true about the HO cams......

Quote:

But first and foremost...DO NOT USE H.O. CAMS IF YOU HAVE NOT YET DONE THE 2.3L OR DRY SUMP OIL PUMP SWAP...ok then.

why??

Quote:

Step 2.0: (Secret cam or 2.4L cam owners ignore this step). For H.O. cams, the grind on the intake cam for the cam position sensor must be matched to the 2.4L cam. The power steering hex must be cut as well to use the 2.4L power steering.

true...

Quote:

Step 2.1: For H.O. cams, I believe it is required to have a dish or valve reliefs for the cams to clear.

there is enough clearance for the valve to open with stock pistons or even a slightly higher compression.

Quote:

Step 3: 2.4L cam and secret cam owners only need a FPR to run the motor. H.O. cam owners might need HPT to tune the motor (esp for the rev limit). Larger injectors are also needed.

It seems like all the information given has not been 100% accurate


as for you asking why

Quote:

Wonder why more people don't do the head swap??

the reason for that is because most people on this forum give out information that isn't clear and exact. search for the ones who have done these mods and ask them for advice. they will tell you exactly what need to be done....

Ok smart ass... here we go

albert gray wrote:i love it when people on here give out info that is half true about the HO cams......

Quote:

But first and foremost...DO NOT USE H.O. CAMS IF YOU HAVE NOT YET DONE THE 2.3L OR DRY SUMP OIL PUMP SWAP...ok then.

why??

H.O. cams build power beyond what the stock 2.4L oil pump can supply to your rod bearings. Hence the need for an upgraded oil pump so that you don't keep spinning rod bearings

albert gray wrote:

Quote:

Step 2.1: For H.O. cams, I believe it is required to have a dish or valve reliefs for the cams to clear.

there is enough clearance for the valve to open with stock pistons or even a slightly higher compression

I was not sure whether there was enough clearance hence the "I believe"

albert gray wrote:

Quote:

Step 3: 2.4L cam and secret cam owners only need a FPR to run the motor. H.O. cam owners might need HPT to tune the motor (esp for the rev limit). Larger injectors are also needed.

It seems like all the information given has not been 100% accurate


as for you asking why

Quote:

Wonder why more people don't do the head swap??

the reason for that is because most people on this forum give out information that isn't clear and exact. search for the ones who have done these mods and ask them for advice. they will tell you exactly what need to be done....

Again, I said people with H.O. cams "might need HPT to tune." They certainly need it to get past the rev limiter on the cavalier to make use of the top end power they supply the motor with. I personally have done the 086 head swap along with my secret cams and am running the motor on nothing more than ford red tops and a fpr.


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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.

Hey smart ass, your info about the cams is wrong.

The Ho cams WON'T clear. Don't even try to argue with me ok, waste of time. The secret cams will clear but the Ho cams won't. Proof? Ho pistons have valve relief on them. Both block (2.3 and 2.4) have a zero deck height. 2.4 have flat top or tiny dish witch is not enough for the Ho cams.

Also, Brian info are pretty much all good. The 086 head swap is not harder than what he said. Coolant port and gasket for the swap. Fuel mods are always a safe thing to do. Hp tuner is needed for Ho cams if you want to make power.


The 2.4 oil pump has a drop of pressure past 5500 IIRC and the Ho cam's need 6800rpm to get a good powerband. By the time the Ho cams hit peak power, the oil pressure is low and will cause trouble after some time.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

Here is a link to a O86 on ebay.



PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

Took you long enough to get your 2 cents in Grilles, I knew if anybody had the info it is you since you have your W41 built up. So now I'm just trying to figure out if I want to go with the 086 Head and Secret Cams to match up to my HO intake manifold. Or if I just want to stay with my LD9 Head and go with the secret cams. I would love to go HO cams with the 086 but don't have the money or the tuning abilities for HPT. There is nobody around my small town that can tune it properly either. So I'm thinking for now I'm going to stick with the LD9 head, secret cams, HO intake manifold, 56mm TB, forged pistons, forged rods, clevite main/rod bearings, and then maybe play around with some nitrous for a bit 30 shot work up to 50.




In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.

Honestly, the 2.4 head with the Ho intake manifold with secret cams is a good setup. Not the best but it's good. Since you are talking about nitrous, keep the 2.4 head and take the money you would have spend on the 086 head and cams for a nice nitrous setup and have fun.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

I have always wanted the "secret cams" so I'll still get those at least, and I'm still forging my internals with my engine rebuild, and if I can still find one a Yank 3k tq converter. After that new fuel pump probably blazer, ngk plugs, and fuel injectors maybe? Will the stock fuel injectors hold up with a nitrous kit? Or should I just go with a wet kit?




In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.

Gilles what are the limitations of the stock 086 head? I know it makes power to 6800 with HO cams and the W41's make power to 7200, but does the stock valvetrain last long on those cams? I have said before i am getting info to build an ITB 2.4 with the 086 head, and i was just wondering if i will need to build the 086 valve train up as well. I guess if the cams only make power to 7200 then i wont be reving any higher then that, but still i figured i would ask cause i want to do it right the first time.

But now the 2.6L stroker looks tempting.

PSN ID: Phatchance249

Good read here, few questions to build off of. Since the HO cams do not make peak power until that 6800 RPM what is the lievlyhood of the 2.4 bottom end with clevite 77s life expectancy or do not even push it? I have the secret cams now actually I have a spare intake cam if anyone wants it.

So the 086 head only came off the 90-92? Cant wait to get my HO this sat. Lastly how have people been doing the machine work, CNC or home dremmel? Just for previous experience and such.



http://members.cardomain.com/vertz24 1998 Z24 Convertible

From my understanding as long as you build the bottom end it is fine. The 2.4 stock motor doesn't rev well mainly cause of the head, restrictive cams, and the oil pump problems, i think.

PSN ID: Phatchance249

The Ho cams make peak power at 6200rpm and the W41 at 6800rpm. The stock 086 springs are good for 8000rpm. I'm running my Hot grind 2 with stock springs. It was the same springs for the Ho's and W41's. FYI, the Hot grind 2 have peak power around 7400-7600rpm. I'll know for sure if I hit the dyno.

Pushing a stock 2.4 at 7000rpm is playing with a bomb. At least use the 2.3 pump.

086 head only came from 90-92. Lo's and Ho's

To modify the water port I would go with a dremel. It's not hard to make the holes bigger.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

From what I remember, some passages simply need to be drilled, but I do remember doing way more dremeling than drilling.


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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.

Just thought I'd throw in there that if you do go with the 086 head with stock cr 2.4 pistons your compression ratio will be like 12.3-1 i believe(might be wrong but i know its over 12), which means no more cheap gas only the premium. That seems to me to be the biggest problem with this swap that i see.

Mfk-223 wrote:Hey smart ass, your info about the cams is wrong.

The Ho cams WON'T clear. Don't even try to argue with me ok, waste of time. The secret cams will clear but the Ho cams won't. Proof? Ho pistons have valve relief on them. Both block (2.3 and 2.4) have a zero deck height. 2.4 have flat top or tiny dish witch is not enough for the Ho cams.

Also, Brian info are pretty much all good. The 086 head swap is not harder than what he said. Coolant port and gasket for the swap. Fuel mods are always a safe thing to do. Hp tuner is needed for Ho cams if you want to make power.


The 2.4 oil pump has a drop of pressure past 5500 IIRC and the Ho cam's need 6800rpm to get a good powerband. By the time the Ho cams hit peak power, the oil pressure is low and will cause trouble after some time.

Gilles-

Brian (SpeedRacerZ) is running the HO exhaust cam, .010" shaved head, and I don't believe he has reliefs cut into his pistons (9.5:1). He's not running the 086 head, its an LD9 head, not sure if that makes the difference or not...





4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!

It might, i think the combustion chamber on the 086 (and all 2.3L heads) is smaller, maybe thats why they said there might be clearance issues because the valves might be actually closer to the piston even when closed, although im not 100% sure.

Stock 2.4 pistons and 086 bring compression up to 11.4:1 to 11.7:1 depending on the year.

Ron, on the ehxaust side you don't need relief on the 2.3. The stock Ho piston have relief for the intake but not for the exhaust side. Also, the 086 head has bigger valves.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

Thats right those compression numbers sound better...I couldnt remember for the life of me last night just that it was rediculously high. for some reason 12 was stuck in my head.

You had 12:1 stuck in your head cause that's what I'm running in my Quad.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

Most interesting reading as I'm in the midst of my 2.3/2.4 hybrid turbo buildup right now, does anyone know if the double timing setup from the 2.3 HO will work on the 2.4? Specifically will the crank gear and any idler gears fit on the 2.4, I know the cam gears will?


2000 Z24 5spd header & catback for now.

I hope i'm not jacking the thread , but will the exhaust manifold from a 3rd gen 2.3 (96 z24 i believe) bolt on to the 086 head? i think it will hook right up to the stock downpipe in my 98 z24.

it seems like an elegant solution to the exhaust issue with this swap. i know the 90-92 HO exhaust mani is the best flowing option available for a 086 head into a third jen, but this requires a custom downpipe.

i am just looking for a functional exhaust until i can have a header made. any input from a knowledgeable source would be much appreciated.



ZZZZZZZ

any 2.3L exhaust manifold will bolt up to any 2.3L head, however a 2.4L exhaust manifold will NOT bolt up to a 2.3L head or vice versa. the 2.3L manifold will NOT hook up to the 2.4L exhaust and again, vice versa.


_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**

Dale Young wrote:Most interesting reading as I'm in the midst of my 2.3/2.4 hybrid turbo buildup right now, does anyone know if the double timing setup from the 2.3 HO will work on the 2.4? Specifically will the crank gear and any idler gears fit on the 2.4, I know the cam gears will?

Ehh.....the dual sprockets aren't worth the added rotating weight to upgrade....the 2.4L timing chain isn't a terrible weak point so its nothing to worry about anyway.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, November 19, 2006 6:59 PM